THE PUSH. MURDER ONNTHE CLIFF - sun and mon 9pm ch 4 - TV PACE. NO SPOILERS

[Blondeshavemorefun]

hasn’t been a lot on recently or had 3 dramas on one night. Wish they would spread them out !!

anyway new 2 parter based on real life

In 2021, a young lawyer fell from the top of Arthur's Seat in Edinburgh.

Her husband was soon arrested for murder.

A murder with no weapon and no witnesses.

Scotland's top legal team need to skilfully paint a picture of what happened.

did she fall or was she pushed ?

if she was pushed was it her husband ?

I also thought it was going to be a true life drama , wasn't prepared for what it actually was .

I think perhaps Fawziyah made light of the pillow incident and didn't make a complaint because she would be extremely wary of the consequences if he was questioned and then released .

From what we have seen of the husband's father , it's pretty clear he inherited his character .

Yes, she was wary of a documented official complaint. I just read more. Two separate incidences of logging problems and lots of recorded abusive phone calls etc. but she obviously wanted to tread warily and thought she could have an exit strategy. I'm just frustrated to think that included going up to Arthur's Seat with him at dusk, but then again, we have the benefit of hindsight. I mean frustrated for her and her family, not for me.

This is quite a good article but beware SPOILERS if you don't know the real life case, don't read it until after the second episode as it discusses the outcome.
SPOILER
The Push: Murder on the Cliff: Channel 4 shows the true story behind Edinburgh death of Fawziyah Javed - Daily Record

I’ve now watched both episodes. The poor woman and her poor family.

His father and friends clearly saw no wrong in him. Vile human beings.

I notice they didn’t show his mother or and in photos she’s pixelated. Found that interesting.

She was def in an abusive relationship

I don't know the outcome and won't read till seen tonight so prob tom

But hope he got sent down for life

Why oh why did she go back to him ? 🥲

it is sad that even a solicitor who knows their rights can get caught up with struggling to leave an abusive partner, but it just goes to show how controlling and manipulative the marriage was. There was obviously a lot of wider family/peer pressure from their cultural expectations

She used her solicitor head to gather evidence but the peer pressure I believe, preventing her from completely cutting ties. It seemed to be “one more” party/celebration/holiday etc to keep up appearances before she had the confidence to leave. She said her plan was to tell him she was collecting presents from her mum’s and never return. plus there was obviously a lot of tension around her seeing her family. I think deep down, she just thought she could get through to him and although she realised she was in danger, didn’t realise it was an immediate risk

Also I am curious how much being a solicitor impacted her thought process. Even though she worked in employment law, she may have come across people who were really mistreated and in dire situations. She may have worked with victims of abuse or people left with nothing and starting from scratch, mental health trauma etc. so perhaps part of why she didn’t leave sooner, was the slow realisation that she is in the vulnerable position of some of the people she’s come across before and may need to start over, protect herself, get legal support both civil and criminal.

I suspect the killer and his dad worked together to collect as much £ as they could from the various wedding parties and then finish F off.

Weak, failed men are dangerous.

F’s mother is a Queen for her work against domestic violence.

Her strength, courage and power against the worst odds a human can face just blow you away.

@martinisforeveryone thank you for this. I tried to write a post about the husbands family but the words just wouldn’t come. Hopefully Fawzia’s sisters in law now question their life and what having their father and brothers around them has done to them also.

Agree @workstresss

She knew better sue to her job but was trying to get the extra evidence as such which basically cost her her life

Very very sad and tragic

And again not something I R.E.M. but isn't Local to me

And he phoned his father before ringing 999.

His father saying she was his daughter now as if they owned her. Clearly the Apple didn’t fall far from the tree.

I'm paraphrasing, but I thought it spoke volumes when his father said, "She's not their daughter. She's our daughter. "

With the implication that once married, she became property of the husband's family.

I thought it was a really good programme, covering a horrific situation, and agree wholeheartedly that her family acted with such dignity throughout (I forgave them their outburst after the verdict was given.)

the implication that once married, she became property of the husband's family

This is the cultural element at play: an Islamic marriage, even a 'love' match rather than an arranged one, often results in the DIL moving in with her DH's family. It's interesting that Anwar said to her "don't be that British woman" . He wanted a more traditional, obedient, subservient wife but she was not prepared to be a doormat. 'Karma Nirvana' were supporting her family because of the honour based abuse element. of this case.

As a caveat, I'd say there can be DV and sexism in relationships from all ethnic groups before anyone claims this is Islamophobia!

The murder’s nothing to do with Islam as the imam pointed out at the end.

The murder is everything to do with using Islam as an excuse to kill the innocent. There’s a lot of it about.

How usual is it to have film crew recording Murder /crown cases

Do they do it thinking in future they make a documentary

In the link I posted it’s called ground breaking. A bit more here
https://news.stv.tv/east-central/documentary-exploring-murder-of-pregnant-lawyer-pushed-from-arthurs-seat-by-husband-to-air-in-march

@thedogknowsmorethanme there is absolutely no 'islamic' principle that requires the woman to move in with in laws or have any duty towards in laws. under islamic law, the wife has a right to her own private dwelling and each individual has a duty to care for their own parents but not parents in law. not saying that they are discouraged for caring about PIL, but it's not a religious obligation.

in south Asian culture that obligation is there. and there is a "living with in laws" culture which can work well or be a disaster depending on the family.

in other parts of the world with large Muslim populations, this culture doesn't exist

I think this awful crime exhibits certain South Asian cultural norms taken to a toxic extreme. because a large proportion of the Muslim population in the uk is of South Asian origin, its easy to conflate South Asian culture and Islam - a conflation which is also common within South Asian communities.

I wondered why Fawziyah's father didn't speak in the documentary and why Kashif's mother's face was obscured.
Utterly heartbreaking- an only child, an unborn grandchild. 🥲

That was terribly sad , I'm so glad her husband was sent down .

Her mother is amazing , she's been very dignified and I think a lot of what she's doing to support abused woman.

Just going to have a read of your two links @martinisforeveryone

Thank you very much for explaining @therealcookiemonster I had formed the misinterpretation that it was a clash of two religious beliefs. I think Kashif fell for a vivacious and westernised independent woman, but as soon as the relationship was serious he either reverted to his own beliefs or bowed to his family's. Fawziyah's mother at least certainly identified this difference in ideals from what she said, but believed it an issue that was smoothed over.

We see too many reports of murders, particularly of women murdered by someone they loved, it must be so hard to live with if you lose your loved one that way. I'm so impressed by Jasmine, that she's harnessed her grief and is putting herself out there to help raise awareness.

Perhaps her father didn't appear on camera because he's not as confident or feels he's not so articulate as her uncle? It's not something everyone can cope with.

If I was Kashif's mother I wouldn't want my face identified on TV either.

To think how he lied about the phone when they could see he'd made three phone calls and none to the emergency services. That his own father knew of the situation before Fawziyah's family. There are so many things that'll play on their minds.

Have to say, I was impressed at the Scottish Court. Yes the judge and the prosecutor were wearing wigs, but everything seemed much more relatable and clear for such a difficult case. The officials all seemed moved at the end didn't they, including the judge, who I thought spoke well.

It was all ground-breaking. It was only late July 2022 when the Judge's sentencing remarks were broadcast from The Old Bailey for a England and Wales first from the Crown Court and this required a change in the law.
Crown Court sentencing remarks to be broadcast for first time - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

@martinisforeveryone sadly this kind of situation is not uncommon (although maybe not such extreme outcomes). People often assume that coming from the same cultural background = synergy in beliefs and values. this results in conflict with the woman usually having to compromise or be the victim of bullying and abuse

@therealcookiemonster I can well believe that. I didn't want to generalise too much on the grounds of culture or religion as we've all seen just from MN relationships how often any loved one can change after marriage.

One thing I didn't see, and you may be able to clear up for me, is that they were married in an Islamic religious ceremony, but did they have a legal British registration of their marriage too? Did they need one to be married in the eyes of English law? I'm thinking if he was her next of kin and about who would inherit her estate and have final say over settling her affairs.

My line of thinking is from a comment that she stayed in part, to try and recover the £12,000 he'd transferred from her bank account to his, without her knowledge, how the law would see that marital status.

Omg
I've only watched the first half of ep1 (but read all the articles) and it's given me chills.
We have photos taken on Arthur's Seat on Aug 1 2021 as that was our holiday that year, due to not being able to travel abroad due to pandemic.

Poor beautiful Fawziyah.
How utterly heartbreaking what she went through, and then her family having to listen to those recorded calls.
Her mum is a diamond in a million.
I'm not going o waste words on what I think of him.