The Traitors S2 - THE AFTERMATH

[MaggieFS]

Discuss!

I think most men do better as traitors due to more prevalence of dark triad traits. But we are only on season 2. I don't know, the game is played more by manipulation, the strategy is actually quite basic.

I'm WAAAAY behind but -

I really feel for them, agree that it's much harder under pressure and sleep-deprived than for us armchair commentators thinking we would do better!

BUT I think I can only agree that Jaz played a blinder until the final. Yes, keep your cards close and yes keep your head down UNTIL YOU CAN'T BE MURDERED ANYMORE and then it's time to un-cage the goddam tiger!

He was WEAK at the round table - almost apologised for upsetting Harry instead of going for the jugular when he'd got him shaken up...

At the very least he HAD to vote for Harry then, and get in one more strong punch at that point.

Then he was weak AGAIN to vote Andrew not Harry at the first round table fire pit thing.

He left it all much too late - didn't give Mollie time to process, didn't ever make Harry squirm except once before he voted Evie...

IMHO it's on him as much as on her. He wasn't persuasive enough, he didn't build the whole case: you told Paul what I'd said, AND how come you knew so much about what the traitirs were told about the dungeon task? AND what about the shield plan looking like a double bluff? AND why did Andrew just attack you, we know Traitors always backstab Traitors on their way out...

If he'd painted a picture then I think she'd have got it. She did write Harry first, but it's on Jaz that he didn't stick the knife in enough when it was time to do it.

I'm baffled why Jaz is getting all "hero" on SM and Mollie is being crucified.

They would have had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. I suspect the legal ramifications for spilling the beans would have been considerable.

Bake off is the same. It’s standard TV procedure. The lawyers will have a way of briefing them that outs the fear of God up them.

There was a Bake off thread on here a while back where one contestant’s sister came on. He was allowed to tell one family member and chose their Mum. He made the final. She said he had no trouble keeping quiet to the rest of them.

@Flamme They weren't allowed any discussion about the banishment vote, so Jaz never had the chance to say anything like this.

Disagree! HE HAD THE ENTIRE SHOW TO SPEAK UP!

He was pretty much the only one doubting Harry (until Andrew suddenly piped up but seemed like Andrew clutching at straws as a traitor). Andrew looked far more like a traitor at that point. His whole demeanor was of a man about to be found out. Jaz had doubts over Harry but absolutely knew that Mollie would back H. And she did (even when she just needed to apply some pretty basic logic).

Mollie let friendship and feeling get in the way far too much but I feel bad for her. It must be rubbish watching it back and wondering whether their friendship was in any way real.

One person did suggest that there could have been a recruitment instead of a failed murder. Ironically it was Ross, who was the one who had been recruited!

It was recorded last summer. No-one watched it live. If you mean they watched the recording together earlier in the afternoon, yes of course they did.

When all's said and done I think Harry did deserve to win, BUT the bit that has me most staggered is the time that elapsed with Mollie, Jaz and Harry stool around the round table, after Mollie had written Harry on the slate...

She is distressed and crying and doubting herself but has already decided enough to WRITE DOWN HIS NAME.

Jaz, being both quite lovely and quite reserved, is keeping his eyes down, hands behind his back, giving her space. Not vampiring on her sadness.

Harry is catching her eye, giving her the reassuring whispers. Sort of changing her mind by sheer force of magnetism, absolute hide of a rhino, "she's written my name but I'm just not quitting until I get the mission done" determination...

At some point Harry does enough winking and vibing at her and she changes the slate. Loses £47,000, for both her and Jaz...

That's a pretty WILD thing to happen, right? I honestly can't get my head around it! I mean, well-played Harry... but it's a bit of a murky grey area from a TV production standpoint, surely? 🤔

It just felt like a much happier ending last year. Even Wilf took it so well and was crying with happiness that they’d won 😂 It just had a much more upbeat feel to it. Early on I wanted Harry to win and I don’t know if maybe would have felt less bad if he’d been at the end with someone he wasn’t close to but it just felt AWFUL. He even said ‘and from the start I have been…’ and in poor old Mollie’s head she’s thinking he’s going to say faithful and they’ll dance off into the sunset with the money. Why did he add that bit in?! 🙈

I'm baffled why Jaz is getting all "hero" on SM and Mollie is being crucified.

Really? Seems pretty obvious to me. Obviously nobody should be getting abused on social media, but it's not hard to see why Jaz is getting praise and people are frustrated with Mollie. Even if he hadn't been persuasive enough with her earlier, by the final fire vote it was pure logic. Nothing at all to gain by voting Jaz, everything to lose and everything to gain by voting Harry.

NO, it didn't happen like that, you've misremembered!

I've just watched that part again. And I'm writing this whilst watching it another time in real time. This is what we were shown, in chronological order:

-They're asked to write down their names
-Molly says she can't do it.
-At no point has Harry mouthed anything or made any facial expression towards Mollie
-She writes down an H
-Then Mollie mouths to Harry, "it's not you?" And he mouths back it's not
-She carries on writing the rest of the name she's putting down
-Claudia asked if their votes are locked in
-Molly asks if she can change it
-Claudia says in effect that she can, because the votes are only locked in when all the players are happy
-Mollie looks at Harry, but he doesn't mouth anything or smile or give any expression to her
-Mollie looks at Jaz, who does react, he opens his mouth, and possibly gives a very small shake of his head, but it's a reaction that's hard to read
-Mollie scrubs out the name she's written
-Claudia asks if the players have their votes locked in, are they sure?
-Mollie says "no I'm not sure"
-Jaz shakes his head, as in 'no', at Mollie
-Mollie looks down again at her vote and picks up the chalk again, it's not clear if she's already written down the name or does it now

• Claudia asks if everyone can confirm they're happy and locked in

-Mollie says "yeah" -They show their votes

I did feel sorry for Harry, yes he'd just won nearly £100k but what an anticlimax

Mollie running off in tears and just him and Claudia in silence. No fanfare no party streamers just an awkward silence.

They really need to change the ending somehow because that was awful.

I meant, nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting Harry, nothing to gain and everything to lose by voting Jaz. Gah!

I sort of agree, but...that's the game. Winner is congratulated by the Gamesmistress and celebrates, and how you feel about that is up to you.

I don't know if I'm just sore because I hate the winner this time but I'm starting to wonder if this is a game I want to keep supporting. Something about a slimy fuckboy doing over a disabled young woman like that doesn't sit right with me. I know it's a game, she chose it, it's called The Traitors etc etc. I'm just not sure I want to be part of it next time.

The question still remains - which round table left Claudia shaking?!

doing over a disabled young woman

I really don't think her disability should be brought into this at all. She owned those missions. Absolutely up there with the rest of them. The idea that her disability diminishes her in any way or suggests that she was somehow lesser than the other characters or more in need of protection is insulting to her achievements.

She also seemed the warmest towards Jas and a bit of a fredian slip when she kept repeating favourite favourite at him I think

Not IMO @Checken
She was very warm towards him, and Mollie, but she was in Mother Hen mode and Jaz (note the spelling of his name, with a 'z') had just come close to winning nearly £50k and lost it at the last minute.

As for her favourite, I think Diane is up there, Diane and Ross. She's made it clear on several occasions she loves them. And how great a Faithful Diane was.

This is Mollie's slate - you can literally see the 'ry' of Harry badly rubbed out.

She didn't just write an H then change her mind - she wrote his whole name out.

I'm not totally sure what your blow-by-blow means for my point, @WriterOfWrongs 🙂because what I'm trying to say (though admittedly probably badly!) was:

1 - it's mad that Harry doesn't give up EVER, even when his name is on the slate at the final moment - even when HE HAS LOST, in that moment; and

2 - it feels questionable to me that the only time in the whole show that we ever saw a name get changed after it was written was the ONE TIME that it totally flipped the outcome of everything? With massive real life cash implications for the people involved?

It must have been a judgement call for sure as to whether to allow Mollie to change her vote - and a pretty critical one, no?

Anyway, just my opinion - it's especially this that leaves me a bit bamboozled.

Claud confirmed it was when Paul was banished

Do remember though that those reaction shots could be being shown out of sequence.

This is Mollie's slate - you can literally see the 'ry' of Harry badly rubbed out.

She didn't just write an H then change her mind - she wrote his whole name out.

And if you read what I wrote again @WoolyMammoth55 you'll see that I stated that. Jesus Fucking Christ. Always is quite amusing to me when, as someone with ADHD, I have better attention to detail than someone else. Admittedly, you may have it too...

This is C&P from what I wrote above:
-She writes down an H
-Then Mollie mouths to Harry, "it's not you?" And he mouths back it's not
-She carries on writing the rest of the name she's putting down

As for your points, Harry wasn't pro-actively trying to change her mind and convince her until the end. Yeah he said he wasn't a traitor WHEN MOLLIE ASKED HIM. What was he supposed to do, say yes I am actually? Pertinently, even after he said that she STILL wrote out the rest of his name. She then obviously changed it after asking if she could.

And you said that Jaz kept looking down when HE PRO-ACTIVELY SHOOK HIS HEAD AT MOLLIE. So you could say he was sort of trying to influence her, which is what you accused Harry of.