The Traitors S2 - THE AFTERMATH

[MaggieFS]

Discuss!

Damn! Posted too soon again.
Molly didn't come across as having any awareness that she'd screwed Jas over as well as herself.

Jas had far more dignity in recognising he'd played a fantastic game as a Faithful, whereas Mollie just swore and stormed off in tears!

Jas had an immense amount of dignity. Very calm and collected.

Jas left with dignity though; he hadn't been fooled and played. Mollie had to realise in that moment that she had. I'm actually surprised her reaction wasn't bigger...maybe it was and they edited it.

What I don't understand was the way the final played out from the players' perspectives:

Evie knew she was on the chopping block. She could have sounded out the others views on other possible traitors and picked up Jaz's Harry theory which Andrew also seemed willing to get on board with. The three of them could have got Harry banished. She could also have- knowing she was faithful- have given more thought to the Harry shield thing and got people talking about that more. Either she didn't or no one could work anything out from it so it went nowhere.

If Jaz was so good at sniffing out Harry and Jaz has a job that seems to require intelligence, why didn't he crunch the numbers and see that when there were 5 of them was his best chance to oust Harry. Evie would have been onboard as she knew her banishment was coming. Andrew was wobbling on Harry and they had a small chat about 'he who must not be named'. Yet Jaz voted for the person most likely to support his theory.

The producers got their dream ending - the smartest player being voted out last due to the vote of a young woman clearly in turmoil leaving one faithful and one traitor who then reveals himself and takes all the money. We are all talking about it. I wonder if the whole edit was favourable to Jaz to make him look like a little suspicion about Harry was actually a concrete hunch?

At the round table when Jaz questioned Harry, Harry's defence was 'Paul was throwing out names everywhere'. Why didn't Jaz reply with 'yes but the conversation he said I had with you Harry was pretty much word for word exactly what I HAD said to you?'

I think the production team probably did all they could to get a traitor to win, because the faithfuls won last year, and people wouldn’t keep watching next year if they think it’s a foregone conclusion that the faithful will win.

But not the same lock down. Mollie would have been shielding. No college, no uni, no nights out. Harry quite possibly would have already enlisted so he would have been a key worker. Added to that he would have been with squads of other soldiers.
Very different experiences.

You are correct and it seems obvious now but I don’t think it would be easy to apply that logic to a situation where you have 60 seconds or so to work that out and at the same time your friendship is fragmenting and you are having doubts…

I agree with you @lizzowhiz

Separately, they're going to have the shake the format up for next year. Much as Claudia said they wouldn't so the same thing twice at the very start, a lot was the same, for example we all expected that there wouldn't be a murder on the last night. (That slightly caught Harry out). I think it will need a revamp so it doesn't become entirely predictable in the last week.

The shield was indeed genius, but I couldn't understand why not one of the faithful clocked that it was perfectly possible for a traitor to have it. Andrew should have pointed that out.

Well if nothing else, I actually like Wilf now. He seemed genuinely happy for the others when he saw it was really over for him and he's come across well in interviews ever since. I don't remember him licking his lips (urgh, and people still found Harry attractive after that?) or grinning about putting women in their place. Harry on Uncloaked was as slimy and dishonest as he was in game; so glad Ed called him out on that "I just need a roof over my head" bullshit.

Can't help it. I hated him from day 1, before he was a Traitor. I hate those contrived cheeky chappie types, they're the male equivalent of women who act ditzy and dumb because they think it's cute.

That's fairly standard. I went once to the spin off show that comes after The Apprentice. The recording was two days before the programme aired, and they showed us the programme beforehand and asked us to keep schtumm about what happened.

Completely agree!

We should remember none of the traitors chose that role. Each one is assigned as traitor. Harry is the best traitor ever.

I do not believe there was a brother and sister type relationship re. Harry and Molly, Molly is probably aiming for a tv career, and can see the wood for the trees.
She's not vulnerable perhaps she's not as worldly as most. Harry has street smarts, considering he joined the army at 16. Probably knows how to make allegiances and win people over.

However producers most likely were whispering in contestants ears, producers are ruthless. The BBC probably working overtime at damage limitation because civilians are vulnerable imo.

Claudia Winklemans clothes probably make up half the winning pot, to the manor born.

God I cannot stand the nature and manipulation of ordinary civilians by tv companies. Its unethical. Still love it though

@Choux my thoughts exactly - but as Evie spoke about on Uncloaked, by that final day she "knew" she would be banished, she was tired and emotional and had given up strategising. Also, like you, I thought she had suspicions about Harry, when in fact she didn't. Similarly, I thought Jaz was more certain than he actually was, and fully expected him to team up with Andrew and Evie to get Harry out first while they had sufficient numbers to do it without Mollie.

I dislike Harry as a person. He makes my skin crawl with that hair gel and earring, no offence. I adore him as a player. Just like I like Ross as a person but hate him as a player. For me, the too are separate.

Well, no, you're revealed as someone who is very good at playing the game you signed up to.

Given his army background, DH and I were speculating whether Harry would get a tap on the shoulder from MI5 after all this.

@ClarasZoo it's not friendship though is it?
They're with the group for literally about 2 weeks, knowing from the outset that they cannot trust anyone. All this 'love the bones of you' stuff is bollocks. If Mollie genuinely thought Harry was her loyal bestie after 2 weeks on a tv game show where the clue is in the name, then quite honestly......

I still maintain that Harry and Jas played it best. Harry was totally on board with being a Traitor from the outset and played it excellently with his eye always on the goal. Jas played an excellent game as a Faithful. He had as much potential vulnerability as Mollie, given his awful background of being betrayed by his dad, but he didn't play up that vulnerability; he stated it but then got on with playing a logical game. It was the power of groupthink that got him shut down... the other Faithfuls weren't as good as him and didn't listen hard enough.

Jas had dignity in not showing how pissed he was at missing out on big money thanks to Millie; he was proud of himself in having played well.

She certainly doesn’t deserve abuse she did herself out of nearly £50k that’s punishment enough!

Been lurking until now (and can't keep up with all the posts, so sorry if this has been covered, but I'm wondering what would have happened if Jaz had gone for Harry before Andrew. That would probably have left 2 votes each, so what would have happened then? I know in the last tie they went again with just those people to vote for, but this time that would still have had the same effect probably (Jaz voting harry and Molly voting Andrew). Does anyone know how they would resolve a tie? Just wondering how much difference it would have made if Jaz had made his move on Harry sooner!

If you are that vulnerable and hate being lied to because it's all so horrible, don't enter Traitors or Survivor. They are not games for the vulnerable. There are other game shows.

I agree about what jaz should have said at the round table.

He knew Paul had said the exact same thing back to him that he said to Harry.

So he knew Harry was a liar. He should have carried on that discussion at least a bit. He just seemed to back down with no come back. He could have won it there.

Also if the traitors had been going to get Harry but couldn’t why wouldn’t they have got him when they murdered Zack? Did anyone say that to him? I thought Jaz was going to but he didn’t

I'm not sure she did. After all, she mouthed at Harry something like "It's not you, is it?"

I agree. When the final was being hyped this week there was a segment I saw - I think on the bbc 6 o'clock news - where it was mentioned the crew was 200 strong. It's a big production so they aren't just going to say let's sit back and see what unfolds.

There are shows in at least 4 countries so although only two have been on tv here they have had 6-8 series to see how things play out, what makes dramatic tv, how to quietly manipulate players into doing what will make the best tv. Things that made series 2 great but may have been helped by the producers:

Jaz making it all the way to the final three - why never on the traitors radar?
The funeral ending up being for the only traitor with a relative in the game. Why was Diane chosen for that particular murder?
Harry and the shield - I struggle to believe he instantly realised when he saw it that it could be a cover for a recruitment. I think producers said 'play today's mission but try to get the shield as if you got it you found not tell anyone you had it and then...' They may also have made it easier for him to find it than Charlotte who was searching in the dark.
Why recruit Ross over the other faithful? It opened up possibilities for a vengeance for Diane storyline which would have been great tv although in the end Ross got banished immediately.

Harry and Molly at the end after eliminating Jaz was the dream climax for the producers. I can't help but feel it was given the odd nudge as well as the edit helping set up how we see the players.