SCD '23 #4: Fourth thread, second dances, first eliminations. NO SPOILERS.

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

Previous thread here.

Spoiler-free thread please

Video thread here. Please link videos on that thread to avoid slowing this one down for some posters.

I think it makes him really difficult to judge — you can comment on other people on how well they've picked up a complicated routine/managed tricky rhythms/lovely hands and arms/the right feel for the dance.

For Layton you expect all that, so you either have to critique the ballroom and Latin technique in a way you probably wouldn't do with other celebs or just say it was great.

Although last week when they talked about his turned in toes was a good example of something they could ask him to improve.

It'll be interesting to see how he manages things like the foxtrot or waltz that aren't maybe as "showy". Will he get the technique well enough to manage some really complicated step patterns (maybe, because he'll have more time to work on that pro rata), or will they end up looking a bit approximate? Or will he dance simpler steps but very nicely?

I went for a wee when Les Dennis's VT was on and when I came back Sky went down. I was told I was the lucky one!

Thanks, I will do this now!!

I think they're going to have to judge Layton on technical prowess. We know he can dance and perform to a high level.
Les Dennis appears to be unable to dance at all. That shimmying was just embarrassing.

Yes judge Layton on technical prowess. But his technical prowess is at 95%, whereas Annabel or one of the Angelas is about 66% and total newbies like Krisnhan or Zara is about 20%. So he is going to score consistently highly every single week (because he can dance very well already).

He must be on Strictly as a profile-raising thing, I had never heard of him before he signed up but I am not a musical theatre following person. I can't see how you can take any satisfaction at all from doing very well in an activity you have been so highly trained in against complete beginners. It'd be like Annabel Croft entering "Strictly Squash" and then being shocked that she was doing really well against Bradley Walsh or something.

It is very hard to judge technical prowess at home as a) I don’t really know that much, just a very little from university competitions and b) the camera very rarely shows the whole person so you can’t see their feet most of the time.

I usually lurk and enjoy these threads, it adds to my enjoyment of strictly season. I just wanted to pop my head out of lurkerdom to balance it out a bit and say that I like Layton and don't mind a ringer. Yes, he is off the scale ringery but honestly in the early episodes it's great to watch something actually good and I still think there is a lot to learn with ballroom and latin technique. Also the whole basic thing was quite funny, basic has more than one meaning, I know this because of teenage daughters.

Before the season started I thought it was ridiculous that Layton was going to be on, and thought it likely that he would get on my nerves.

However I’ve been pleasantly surprised. So far, I’ve found him more likeable than I was expecting.

I get that he’s a ringer, but that’s the producers’ fault for asking him, not his for accepting it. His background is ballet (from age 10) and then commercial (from his teens). On yesterday’s show I thought his feet were looking quite “ballet” at times (like Angela Scanlon’s legs and feet looked Irish dance some of the time) and his top half still had some commercial traces. So I’ll be interested to see if - with his level of talent - he can achieve “Ten Dance Champion” levels of technique or whether, in fact, ballroom and Latin takes years of training to master the technique, not just 13 weeks of intensive training even if you’re super talented.

The other thing I find interesting with Layton is how his “a professional in musical theatre” persona is so different from his ten year old self, when he was on the Paul O Grady show teaching Vernon Kay some ballet steps. He was absolutely adorable on that show. And also very ‘typical northern lad’ saying a tutu was “not my style”. It’s kind of funny/sweet to look back on now that he’s fully embraced the “camp theatrical” persona.

Not that it’s relevant to his dancing, but I thought his eye shadow last week was magnificent.

you can’t see their feet most of the time.

Yeah, I found that frustrating. I wanted to watch Layton’s feet but a lot of the time the camera was too high up. And craning my neck made no difference to the camera’s position, lol!

Layton's make up is in point. I think he's beautiful. His sister is the same.

Again, Layton’s personality doesn’t bother me in any way. And I don’t think it’s his fault that he’s so good! I just think the producers have made a mistake in putting him in the line up given that he is basically, as someone has eloquently said upthread, in a different development and judging scale as the other contestants.

It feels like there is the Nigel/Amanda level, where they will get fairly precise and technical feedback because they’re doing really well on the basics, the basic feedback for those who are starting off, and then the ‘well, Les, you’ve got a really nice shirt on’ stuff. The scores are tricky enough to calibrate as it is! But how you then add the sort of feedback someone like Layton needs into the mix, and score him against Les… Doesn’t feel thought through.

I’m happy to watch Layton dance, and I’d happily watch him in a competition where dancers from different disciplines tried new ones out - that could be a great show. But as it is, it just doesn’t gel for me and it’s created a headache for the judges.

You used to be able to watch it on the red button from a fixed camera position, but they got rid of that years ago.

I wish the steadicam wouldn't run around them in the opposite direction when they spin, it makes me feel a bit giddy sometimes!

i enjoyed Laytons dance but he is too much of a ringer for me. it annoys me that when he is in the dance off craig will say I don't know why your here.
then they will save him.
Les needs to be first out as he is so bad and not in a funny way.

Yes, Les is just terrible without being amusing.

“The scores are tricky enough to calibrate as it is! But how you then add the sort of feedback someone like Layton needs into the mix, and score him against Les… Doesn’t feel thought through.
^^
I’m happy to watch Layton dance, and I’d happily watch him in a competition where dancers from different disciplines tried new ones out - that could be a great show. But as it is, it just doesn’t gel for me and it’s created a headache for the judges.”

I’d watch that show too!

I see what you mean about the headache for the judges. I think Shirley tries to address that by taking into account the level of experience of the celebrity when marking. Whereas Craig sticks to his “I apply the same standards to everyone” approach. For me, the inconsistent marking problems are created by the producers with their “journey” narrative and their “this year is the best year ever” narrative, which has resulted in scores getting higher over the years regardless of whether it’s deserved. The “don’t mark too high in the early episodes” issue means a celeb’s chance of getting a ten depends on which week they are doing their Charleston as much as on how good it was.

Didn’t it used to be that a seven from Len was pretty good? Whereas now less than a seven seems to be seen as falling short.

I catch up on YouTube and they don't seem to have Les's dance. Was it really that bad 😂

I wonder what the decision making process is like to match celebrities and pros. I mean I know they try to match build etc but is there an element of "he had a difficult partner last year we'll give him somebody with promise this year" ?

I was wondering this watching Nikita who I thought was brilliant adapting routines to accommodate the height difference with Ellie last year including dancing on his knees a couple of times I think.Did this promise him somebody decent this year do you think?

Although...that never seemed to work out for Anton did it?

Also, I'm dying for the inside scoop, has anybody met Kai in real life? Is he as nice as he comes across?

He's becoming a firm favourite 🥰

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/sep/30/hamza-yassin-if-hunting-is-a-sport-let-the-animal-have-a-rifle-as-well?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Article on Hamza , my favourite contestant last year, from the Guardian yesterday.

I thought I wouldn’t like Layton because I’d watched a video of him dancing and was explaining to my OH who he was, and that the “dance” I’d seen had been that show-offy advanced aerobics class style.

”You mean Louis Spence?” he replied, and it seemed so fitting I thought that’s how Layton would be too, so I’m pleasantly surprised at how lovely and sweet he is on Strictly. His dance last night was simply wonderful. I didn’t vote for him because his scores will keep him safe from the dance-off for a few weeks. I hope he doesn’t sulk and strop when he inevitably ends up in the bottom two.

I don’t care if he’s a ringer, I watch it for the dancing.

Poor Hamza. Unrequited love is so painful. I hope he finds someone who can love him in return.

Poor Hamza, I hope he finds somebody lovely.

I'm probably about to jinx people here but, based on what we've seen so far, my own bespoke finalists would be:

Ellie
Angela Rippon
Annabel
Nigel

I'd also like Amanda, Angela Scanlon and Krishnan to go far into the competition. Eddie has got the charisma and some potential but Karen is failing to harness it.

However, I think the actual finalists are nailed on to be:

Layton
Bobby
Nigel
Ellie

It's great seeing ProNikita unleashed but it's going to be fatal for anyone to land up in the dance-off against Layton. It will actually be a good thing if he tops the leaderboard every week because that's the safest way to avoid him obliterating the chances of everyone who has a bit of a blip.

I seem to be alone in thinking Angela Rippon isn’t much fun to watch. She seems to get 2 extra points from each judge just for being old. Last night’s awful costume with the padded shoulder completely obscured her top line, and made her look hunch-shouldered. That she and Annabel got the same judges’ score last week for vastly differently-abled cha chas is incomprehensible to me.

I’m with you @MavisMcMinty

i don’t dislike Angela R, but I don’t find the dancing that interesting and, being realistic, we aren’t going to get what I’m after when I watch strictly and it gets to the end, which is tricks and lifts etc.

i do really like her though so have no issue with her going pretty far.