SCD '23 #4: Fourth thread, second dances, first eliminations. NO SPOILERS.

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

Previous thread here.

Spoiler-free thread please

Video thread here. Please link videos on that thread to avoid slowing this one down for some posters.

Cunniliftus as Monkseal used to call it.

I think I'll enjoy Layton if he has good music and dances lots of ballroom/Latin choreography. If I don't like the music and he just does stage dancing I won't. ProNikita, take note!

No, but of the current four she’s probably the most objective tbf

He really is isn’t he, shockingly so.

Lots of them have had training, it's not just about the training, it's ability too. It seems harsh to mark down people with equal training just because they're talented dancers!

Leyton and Nigel did exactly the same degree at Arts Ed, as did Danny Mac. Amanda has had lots of dance training, as have both Angelas. That's why they're all great to watch.

Did anyone else know that Angela R wrote the Victoria Plum books? Sure I had VP bedding in the 80s…

I think there’s a big difference between having had training when young or at university and having spent your entire or recent career as a professional performer where dance is a major part of your job. It’s not really comparable at all and that’s why watching Leyton is like watching a pair of pros dance in week two.

The other contestants you mention are older and have spent significant time working mostly in other fields. They are good, but not professional dancers. This shows through levels of confidence, showmanship etc.

Leyton knows how to learn routines and is used to working with choreographers. They can give him much harder routines to learn quickly. He knows how to smooth over mistakes and not get flustered if he misses a step. This is all part of the learning process for the other contestants, even the good ones.

I don’t find his personality annoying like a lot of PPs and I have sympathy for him because he must be taking a bit of flack for this but I’m really cross with the BBC for spoiling the competition in this way.

lolol. He is definitely the full-on sexiest pro-dancer. Johannes is my go-to for general loveliness and grace (and the one I summon to my mind every time I want to remind myself to adopt correct posture). But if it came to actually hiring a gigolo it would be Giovanni every time.

I am finding Layton less annoying than I thought. I couldn’t tell if his basic outrage was a joke or not. My impression is he meant it as a joke to cover the fact he had that reaction, so 60% joke 40% real. But if I can’t tell neither will lots of others and he will fall out of favour.

On Twitter there are quite a few posts saying only black people are pulled up for being ringers - Alexandra Burke and Fleur East as examples. But Ashley got as much flack.

I never warmed to Alexandra as every week she did the whole “this is so hard” routine, which didn’t ring (excuse the pun) true. I did like Fleur though.

The majority of Nigel Harmans career has been on the stage, he had played various roles that also means he knows how to learn routines, work with choreopraphers. He has been dancing for far longer than Layton.

Layton will not win in my opinion. However good he is. He is far too unlikeable. Triggered because someone said the word basic? What a prick. I’m not really bothered about the dancing experience because you’d be hard pushed to find enough celebrities who have never done any dancing at all to take part and they’d all be rubbish to watch! I always think actors are also at an advantage as they can sell the dance better, especially early on, sports people are because they are fitter and have the stamina etc, lots of them have some kind of advantage. Layton be in the dance off a lot and the judges will keep saving him. Yes it’s a dancing show but it is also first and foremost an entertainment show and you have to actually like the people you are watching!

There's a huge difference between the level of dancing you'd be doing as Sky Masterson or Lord Farquaad (which NH performed on his knees) and what you'd do as Jamie/Billie Elliot/Seaweed in Hairspray/Young Michael in Thriller/in a Matthew Bourne. I don't think Nigel was teaching dance classes in his spare time either.

Nigel is obviously a bit of a ringer in the Denise van Outen mould - but Layton is another level. One is an actor/singer/dancer, the other is a dancer/actor/singer.

I'll enjoy watching Layton but I'll let his scores take him to the final without my help.

Karim was another one who got torn to shreds here. I thought he was an absolute sweetheart, and I didn't get all the hate. And it wasn't just that he was a ringer - so many ppl said he was arrogant when I viewed it as confidence. It seems like the confident white (attractive) males like Danny Mac are the only ones who get a free pass for being a ringer.

As for Layton, yes he's an absolute ringer and possibly shouldn't be in the competition (though I'm thrilled to bits I get to see Nikita go all out for a change - he's been my fave pro since he first joined the show). BUT, none of us can judge how Layton is as a person. What comes across to some as arrogance could really be masked insecurity. This is a young man who is both biracial and gay. I'd like to think one day we'll live in a world where that doesn't matter, but right now we don't. My sons are mixed race (white and Asian), and they found it difficult sometimes with their white peers, who would "tease" them - they would put on a fake confident persona in order to cope with it. As a straight white woman, I have no idea what Layton has to tell himself every morning in order to feel good about himself, let alone project his personality in front of millions each week. And those VTs are edited for maxiumum "drama."

Layton doesn't have to win in order for me to enjoy his dances with Nikita. If he then "steals" another celeb's spot in the final, that's on the producers and the judges, not on Layton. And there's no guarantee Layton will win every dance off. Aston Merrygold was a shock vote off.

I don't really see why people are taking against him for the "basic" thing. It's a standard Strictly VT joke "pro uses technical ballroom term, celeb doesn't understand it, hilarity ensues". In this case the comedy misunderstanding is that Nikita is insulting Layton by calling him basic, and that's the way they play it with "hilarious" consequences.

I remember Denise VO a lot of criticism for being a ringer and people were quite nasty to her.

Ooh, I loved Denise VO. Danny Mac is my all time fave contestant, and Alexandra Burke is a close second. I liked Karim too.

He isn't a professional dancer though. He's an actor who's done some dancing. Still hints of ringer but nothing like Big Ben at midnight on NYE.

I’m not bothered by Layton’s personality. He comes across as quite drama llama but that’s fine. Fairly standard for his sort of job! But as a not remotely expert Strictly viewer what I really love is people getting better. I enjoy watching a range, so the ones who seem confident now but are still doing fairly basic stuff, and the ones who are counting out loud but have something about them. There’s always the hope that someone inept will make amazing progress - although Les is obviously a lost cause. But Layton’s dance was just like watching two professionals (to me - again, I realise that to people who know ballroom very well there will have been things to work on, although not mentioned by the judges last night). So while undeniably entertaining, I can’t see how he fits in with the other contestants - where is this going?

I’ve never felt like this watching a contestant before. Even others that were called ringers - they’ve felt like they launched high and did some great dances but still visibly improved, and I was quite happy to have them in the competion. But Layton just feels like a pro to me and I don’t know enough about dancing to really notice any small changes he might make.

I did used to get put out by who I thought were ringers but have realised I like watching a mix of new to dance contestants and more ‘experienced’ contestants.
It would be a very boring entertainment show if they were all average or below.
I did however vote for Jody, Krishnan and Zara as would like them in a bit longer and do not want them in dance off yet.

Ha ha at cunniliftus

I agree @SoupDragon . Nearly all actors who have been to stage school will have done singing, acting and dance. DS (who is only 15) does musical theatre classes for 3 hours a week - one hour dance, one hour singing, one hour acting. It's fairly standard stage school training.

But there is a MASSIVE difference between someone in their late 40s/50s who had dance training in their teens/20s and who is known as an actor in things like Eastenders and Casualty (not much dancing there) or like Amanda A in Sherlock, and someone much younger, who extensive dance training, and who has appeared as the lead in dance-led shows like Thriller or Billy Elliot.

Layton tutors dance, runs workshops, teaches others to dance. I personally don't think he should be on the show at all. What I object to the most though is the nonsense from the judges about how he doesn't have an unfair advantage at all, and has to relearn everything making it more difficult. The audience is not stupid, even those of us with no dance training can see that Layton is head and shoulders above everyone else because of his extensive training and experience.

Yes!!! I adored those books 🥰

I have to confess, I nipped out for a wee when Layton came on. I did intend to get back in time for his actual dance but got sidetracked in the kitchen and came back into living room to find I was too late. Just saw all the adulation from the audience.

Still have no desire to watch him on catch up. If you want to watch seasoned professionals dancing, just go to the ballet or something - he’s not right for Strictly.

I was on Twitter X immediately after though and they bloody love him on there.

I voted Krishnan, Nigel and Eddie.

Gah. Just been spoilered by the spoiler thread even though I was trying to avoid it. I commented on the spoiler thread when it was discussing the pairings, so that means it comes up on threads I’m on and it shows the first couple of lines of the last couple of posts, so I saw them before realising what it was and hadn’t even clicked on the thread. My own fault I suppose for commenting on it in the first place, but still annoying.

I strongly believe the producers have a responsibility to the celebrities and their mental well-being. And putting on a young man, who as others have pointed out is biracial and gay, who is such an obvious ringer, is putting him right in the firing line. They know having someone with so much dance experience causes controversy which is good for ratings, but can be bad for the person.

Layton isn’t my cup of tea (at the moment - that might change) as he is overly dramatic and I can’t tell when it is a joke and when real (basic?!!?). But then neither is Adam. But I don’t think it is fair on him to be on this show.

As for he could turn it down, this is a massive career opportunity to go from niche to mainstream. It would be very hard to say no.

I don’t like Layton being a ringer, but blame the producers not him.

@ChessieFL you can hide the thread if you don't want to see it again, up at the top.