Buckle up fuckleheads we’re excited for the Succession finale

[CultureAlienationBoredomandDespair]

Continuing our discussion here 😊

No that was about Kendall's kids. One being adopted ( Sophie) and one ( Iverson) being Rava's by her previous husband. So neither with Roy blood.

Did Mattson really want to fuck Shiv? I think not. That was a test. That Tom passed with flying colours. Tom is not the one who loves too much any more. He is as cold and calculating as Shiv.

Also did Mattson really send the blood brick to Ebba? I think not too.

Thought it was amazing. Rarely satisfied by big series finales but thought this was perfect.

I thought the stitch opening hug between Roman and Ken was because Roman was starting to waiver, say he didn’t look so bad and that he could have done it / still do it eg present as a credible CEO option and that was why Ken deliberately made the cut bleed to make Roman look more of a mess. But I need to go back and rewatch I think.

I think Shiv’s decision at the end is about her unborn child. If she sticks with Tom, and he sticks as CEO (which does seem a touch unlikely long term) then her child is the successor so she ‘wins’ albeit a generation later. I do think she has feelings for Tom as well, and does want to be a family, but think ultimately it’s about keeping her influence in the mix and ensuring the succession on her line.

I think Roman was happy to be released. I hope he goes and gets some therapy and / or shacks up with Gerri and lives happily ever after!

No idea what next for Kendall though. Although, surely with their name and wealth and connections there would be business opportunities out there for them all if they chose to pursue them? Like the plan they previously had? He just needs to find some new co-investors and get obsessed with a new plan to take over the world!

I’m absolutely delighted with that finale. What a perfect ending. I’m going to watch again today.

No surprise that Shiv went back to Tom. What was his line to her? Something along the lines of “you don’t like to lose/fail do you Siobhan?”.

I was very pleased to see Karolina (who I adore) triumph over Hugo (who is deplorable).

Agree with PP that there were unspoken words with Tom and Greg in that last scene between them, about where the bodies are buried.

If she sticks with Tom, and he sticks as CEO (which does seem a touch unlikely long term) then her child is the successor so she ‘wins’ albeit a generation later.

This job is 'American CEO', it's an employee-level position, there's no company ownership and nothing really to succeed to. I think Tom will only use it as a springboard to something else as it will quickly become apparent there's no real power. Matsson only wants a puppet.

I've just realised we never got to the bottom of Tom's "I'm so tired" comments. I think it was just meant to highlight that, as the only one doing any actual work, he didn't have as much energy for the endless socialising and plotting of the uber-wealthy.

Just watched the last half hour again being able to just enjoy their acting and I ended up crying for Kendall, he is a broken man and I’ve hated him many times like everyone else but I honestly think he’s the result of his parents’ horrible upbringing.

i mean, his dad was already planting the seed when he was 7 years old and it’s heartbreaking when he says to Shiv he’s a clog that only fits one machine.

his arrogance only masks his deep insecurities, I honestly want to hug him and tell him everything will be ok.

CEOs can still own large chunks of equity, and wield a lot of power. I guess this is just the start for Tom: Mattson thinks he has bought him, Tom thinks that he can gradually wrest control from Mattson. My money's on Tom, supported by Shiv (and Greg!).

Agree with pp Roman was happy in the end.

Kendall a shadow of self, not sure where he’d go next

So pleased Gerri got a mention so you know she’s in

Yep but Matsson is the actual CEO, Tom is a figure-head, pretend CEO for the US operations to placate the American right. Equally I don't think Matsson is very interested in the non-media bits of the empire - the theme parks, the cruiseline, or the highly plausible Living+, except as a vehicle for his tech ambitions. So Tom may be able to wield quite a lot of power from there.

Shiv won't have to pay because she is now mega-wealthy, and can do whatever she likes.

One of the great things about Succession is that it resisted making Shiv kickarse. She's arguably more competent than her brothers, and she's certainly less chaotic, but she's not great. I agree with PPs that Roman is now free, and Shiv is too - she hasn't got to keep trying to prove herself

I think that, at the end, she is calculating her best option - get a slow revenge on Mattson via Tom, or divorce Tom (no doubt Logan insisted on a pre-nup) and walk away. She still holds a lot of cards.

Tom's victory might be shortlived though. If the courts go against Mencken, ATN and possibly Tom are toast as his reputation will be damaged and cthat could affect his standing as CEO.

Enter Roman! Mattson likes him.

I think we're all ably demonstrating why the series could end here, or not. The game never ends, the machinations will go on forever as they are all consumed by greed and lust for power.

I hope Roman would never go back!

He was happy to be free at the end, I think.

If she could really do what she liked, she would have walked away from backstabbing Tom. She doesnt have the moxie to strike out on her own. She needs a powerful man.

I actually always thought she was the least competent of the 3. Lots of talking and swishy hair, then constantly getting shafted by the men in her life. Literally who would have trusted Mattson? I agree Succession did great in making her the anti girl boss.

Roman is toast. Jeremy Strong also said he says no way forward for Kendall.:(

Interesting titbit: Mattson's awful clothes in the finale are Skaarsgaards own!

Gerri and Karolina, the most competent and sensible women in the show, come out on top.

...and Jess. She saw the shitstorm coming and got out. She was incredibly competent.

I hope so too.

The fact that we are all thinking about what happens afterwards shows what a brilliant series it was.

So many brilliant details and weirdly one of my favourite was Mattson singing along to the tune of Agadoo after they'd signed the deal.

Also thought that Roman had the best ending.

Timeline also blows me away - a lot happened to the Roy kids over 10 days and frankly they all need a rest!

I don't think that was it. Sophie is adopted, yes, but Iverson is surely via sperm donation (Roman mentioned Kendall's son being half Rava, half "some filing cabinet guy"). Also ties in with a much earlier scene, possibly in series 1, where Logan berates Tom for not having given him a grandson yet and accuses him of "firing blanks". Kendall is right there in that scene. What a terrible thing for Logan to say! But I bet he did say it. He didn't see them as "proper" grandchildren.

As an aside, great writing again not to mention anything in four series about the provenance of those children, despite Sophie being obviously not biologically their child, only for it to appear like a hand grenade at the end. Awful but brilliant.

I’ve been musing on that.

The perfection of setting up all series so the line in the final episode just kills

Plus Shiv pg so the one with the bloodline

Would Shiv have been pregnant if Sarah Snook hadn’t been pregnant?

Yes you are right. I think Iverson is via sperm donation. Though I can't remember if they specifically said that.
That's why Logan was perfectly happy to use Iverson as a taster. Gah!

I love this chat. No other series has stayed with me due to its excellence. Shakespearean I reckon

Dh just watches it and moves on. I feel like I need a couple of days 😂

I was soooo empty after the finale as it aired - like Kendall you're built up so much to know it's him, it's always been him, so when it isn't youre as shocked as him - but after rewatching with family I think it was really great.

Thought he was going in the water after. I think J Strong said he can see Kendall having a future but this will always be his life altering/changing

Shiv's decision totally makes sense. She's constantly fucked over and sidelined by men in her life. Wife to a puppet ceo and mother of a Real Roy baby has more power.

Roman's kind of free. He's been here before, when he was working with his sibs and not being pulled back into Logan psychodrama until his hand was forced and he seemed healthier then. He also has some self awareness, he knows it's BS, he knows hes as fucked without Logan as Ken is but in different ways </3 So sad seeing him with Gerri's drink

The last scene they shot was the meal fit for a king one before J Strong had his hair buzzed again! What a nice one for them to end on.

In King Lear, Lear has 3 daughters. None of them get the crown. Instead it goes to Edgar, the Duke of Albany, who goes about in disguise underr the name "Tom". That should have given us a clue.

I've seen this theory around and about @JaneFondue but Edgar is the oldest son of the Earl of Gloucester. He pretends to be a madman called Tom O'Bedlam. He has a younger half-brother Edmund (who is illegitimate) who resents him. Gloucester is the one who gets his eyes gouged out.

At the point where Lear leaves his throne to one of his sons-in-law, all his daughters are dead. Albany and Edgar rule jointly at the end.