Anyone watched the shamina begum documentary on bbc 2 ?

[hellobethyname]

Just watching it now

I've changed my mind . She was a child , groomed , no idea what she was getting into .

I don't think we should demonise one child forever . There are much bigger threats out there that people don't even realise.

Is the camp secure so that nobody can leave

That's what I don't get @ChoccyJules , that other male terrorist threats have not been stripped of their citizenship and allowed back to the UK to face justice here but SB has been denied that.

Because some people are worryingly comfortable with blaming a female child for her own grooming and holding a female child to a higher standard than adult men.

No they haven’t. That is false. All male terrorists that could be stripped of citizenship were also stripped of British citizenship. The problem is international law doesn’t allow someone to be left stateless, so only the terrorists, male and female, who had more than one citizenship or birthright to a second citizenship (as Begum does) were stripped of British citizenship.

It's semi secure and officially run by US backed Syrian forces but unofficially, according to US government, it's controlled by Isis related extremists who use the camp for indoctrination and recruitment. This ties in with what the documentary talked about how people in the camp live in fear if they are not Isis supporters.

It's very rare to change your accent that much.

It’s not that rare if you are a teen. Two of my adult DC only lived in the USA for 3yrs out of their entire lives but have American accents.

I actually do not believe it is the UK’s responsibility to deal with the aftermath of terrorist ‘grooming’ that happens ‘on our soil’ (it didn’t, she was groomed by somebody from Canada allegedly, online.) By that, I mean that we should absolutely be trying to stop it where we can as it is an issue of public concern, but we are not responsible for it happening. We also should not be held responsible to deal with the aftermath of this either.

I find it mind boggling that a school in central london can have such an issue with terrorist sympathising, yet the parents had to receive a letter from the police to address this? Why had the school not directly informed the parents? Why were the parents to oblivious and unaware as to what was going on? Was there a general rhetoric in the atmosphere which blurred the lines between being a sympathiser and girls actively mobilising to go to Syria? I suspect so.

Terrorism, whether terrorists or sympathisers are groomed or not, is an external phenomenon designed to attack the internal fabric and structure of this country. It is directly opposed to the values of the U.K. and it is by nature, not something that is commonplace in BRITISH culture. So, not our internal responsibility to have to fix those that choose to follow extremism. I believe any extremist should be extradited.

I for one am not ‘white British’ and I am incredibly grateful to this country. I absolutely do not believe that anybody, whether ethnically English or otherwise should be allowed back into this country should they involve themselves in terrorism.

If SB has learning difficulties I would suggest that would be the only alternative I could find to excuse what she did. That said, if she had, do we not think this would be an argument used by her lawyer? She has a very driven PR team around her I would be surprised it hasn’t been used to position her as more vulnerable?

If there is no learning difficulty, I still find it very hard to imagine that anybody could be groomed so thoroughly that they are accepting of murdering and killing in such a brutal extreme manner. There is absolutely no correlation between the Rotherham girls and terrorists. Two totally different motivations.

SB was not groomed by a potential lover, she was enticed by violence and Islamist extremist rhetoric. It suggests to me that she may have been brought up with suggestive views, or existing values that made the jump into terrorism that much more acceptable. She should absolutely be made an example of.

You are wrong. Her citizenship being stripped wasn’t “arbitrary” at all.
You are probably doing exactly what you are accusing me of:

Since 1981, the British Nationality Act section 40, has allowed the Home Secretary to strip the citizenship of any British citizen if it is conducive to the public good.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/40

Since 2006 this has been ruled by the Supreme Court to be applicable to any British citizen with dual/multiple nationality or claim to a second citizenship that joins a terrorist organisation.

Begum also appealed to the U.K. Supreme Court regarding her citizenship being stripped and lost. It was fully lawful and upheld by the Supreme Court.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/26/shamima-begum-cannot-return-to-uk-to-fight-for-citizenship-court-rules

@AG247 agree re the girls school in bethnal green. As well as the 3 girls who travelled together, there was another girl who apparently helped to recruit the 3 girls who travelled to Syria a couple of months before. This initial girl was recruited by two women from a local mosque. So that is 4 children from one school. That is a massive problem and for the school to send letters home with the girls (which parents never received) is a huge failing on the schools part.

Also, SB sister said at the time they first went to Syria that the 3 girls had gone to bring the first girl home. This implies to me that the sister at least was aware of what was happening/providing a cover and it makes me think if more if the family had any inklings.

According to the documentary last night, the first girl that went to Syria (shameema begum, no relation to shamima) is still an active member of Isis.

The WHITE young man ‘Jihadi Jack’ was stripped of his British Citizenship. The Canadians have accepted his dual citizenship.

I believe that Begum had Bangladeshi citizenship through her father when she went to participate in ISIS, but the Bangladeshi authorities have taken that away and basically want nothing to do with her ( do they qualify as racist ?)

And White British Sally Jones who only had British citizenship was on an Allies hit list and assassinated by a U.S. drone strike along with her 12yr old child.

I save my sympathy for the Yazidi women enslaved and murdered by ISIS. Not the women like Begum who joined in on the Yazidi genocide.

I think you are absolutely correct.

Just for those not aware;

Shamima Begum and friends were openly wearing ISIS pin badges to school on a daily basis. This has been mentioned in an article with her old school friends.

SB and friends left the U.K. around late February 2015.

At that point, ISIS had already publically executed James Foley and Steven Sotloff (journalists) plus aid worker David Haines in 2014. If anyone also recalls the video of the Jordanian pilot being burned to death, that too was released and spread throughout the media around 3 weeks prior to Shamima and friends leaving the U.K.

This not only shows that Shamima was well aware of what ISIS was about, it is pretty clear that those around her knew exactly of her sympathies.

Her family, who would in the least be able to read basic Arabic, absolutely knew what she was wearing pinned to her clothing. And there was no doubt at the time what ISIS was about.

no sympathy at all.

Just reading that the school that the girls attended had another 5 girls after SB and her friends that were in the process of being recruited and travel bans were placed on them to stop them travelling to Syria. What the hell was going on at that school?

For someone who has just ‘changed their mind’ having watched one 99 minute Tv show, you seem very well informed OP. And very, very committed to the cause of inviting this non British citizen to the UK.

Isis pin badges in school??? Bloody hell. I bet the school had rules about make up and length of skirts but no rules for wearing terrorist pin badges 😡

🤬 Awful about the girls with ISIS badges on their school blazers.

I thought the documentary was fascinating. She's obviously given herself her own media training - and the effect is extraordinary. I don't think anyone will ever truly know what she's got up to out there, but equally people saying once she was an adult she should have just removed herself from the situation clearly aren't thinking about her circumstances out there. Also I just cannot imagine losing three children like that. Just unbearable. I've always wondered what that was like for Sajid Javid. One moment, you're cheerfully scoring a fairly minor political point. The next minute a baby has died because of your decision.

I actually do not believe it is the UK’s responsibility to deal with the aftermath of terrorist ‘grooming’ that happens ‘on our soil’ (it didn’t, she was groomed by somebody from Canada allegedly, online.) By that, I mean that we should absolutely be trying to stop it where we can as it is an issue of public concern, but we are not responsible for it happening. We also should not be held responsible to deal with the aftermath of this either.
Why should we not be responsible for safeguarding failures of British children?

If children are being groomed in our country, be it for terrorism, child criminal exploitation or child sexual exploitation, we have a duty to safeguard children and deal with the consequences of our failures to act

I feel sorry for the fifteen year old that was groomed. I don’t feel sorry for this adult that a short while ago had no remorse for what she did.
They are the same person

Exactly!

This shows how little you know about grooming.

Do think children groomed for sexual exploitation don't know that prostitution is wrong? Or that sex with multiple people you don't know is considered 'not the done thing'? And yet, groomers manage to persuade them there's nothing wrong with it, that in fact it's their idea to do it, that they want to do it. And many, many parents of sexually exploited children are aware that 'somethibg' is going on, but most cannot contemplate what that might be because they can't imagine their lovely child going down that particular route.

She never had Bangladeshi citizenship. I believe she could have potentially qualified for it (through her mother) but it wasn't taken away and why should Bangladesh offer citizenship to offer the UK a get-out clause? It's ludicrous to suggest it.

She wasn't groomed by a Canadian either - the contact who met them in Turkey was a double agent for Canada but wasn't a citizen at the time. I don't think he had contact with the girls before - he was the person who met and transported them.

How on earth can anyone defend her, Christ no the wonder this country is on its knees. A 15yo girl is not stupid, and why would you want to get pregnant in the middle of a war with no food to sustain your baby?

Apparently died of malnutrition yet she got pregnant again. I suppose the blame is on the abusive partner and she had no choice, eh?

Plus that oh so smug smile. But too many on here all should be forgiven and bless her poor little socks 🤦‍♂️ 🤬

I caught a bit of it after listening to the podcast (the journalist is incredibly thorough and did a series on an American woman who went to Syria). She repulses me. She laughs, shrugs, doesn't seem at all remorseful or get why it's such a big deal to literally everyone (she even says as much, "It's ISIS, that's it"). She is very smug and unrepentant. She is clearly not very intelligent and emotionally limited.

Yes she had a good family but the area in tower hamlets was in poverty, she experienced racism and a lack of identity. Ripe pickings I'd say .

This is such bullshit. I live in that very same area. She was actually one of the ethnic MAJORITY as the Bangladeshi-descent population dominates the area (and is very much prioritised by the local politicians as the Bangladeshi vote is what gets them elected). And there's actually lots of investment in the area. While she was a pupil at her school in Bethnal Green, £17 million was invested in the school. This happened 4 years before she left.

I really wish people would stop failing for the spin.

I was quite 'stupid' at 15, if by that you mean 'as yet lacking in life experience and fully adult processing and decision-making skills'.

How much say do you feel she had in getting pregnant, given her husband and the culture/context within which she was living?

Please can you point out, I'm interested, where people say 'all should be forgiven' or 'bless her poor little socks'? Thanks.