The English

[Nanalisa60]

Just binge watched it on BBC iPlayer one of the best story’s I have watch in a long time, really really good.

Wasn't it something to do with them being on their own paths? So they were destined to meet and touch each other's soul in this world but not to stay together. However, when Eli talked about the constellation of Scorpio being side by side with the 'wolf', he was implying they'd be together for eternity? It was all deeply spiritual.

Oh i see. So sad! It was much better and sadder than one of them dying!

It was a grown-up type of ending really, wasn't it? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all type.

Watching this for the second time and catching clues and nuance which I missed first time around.
It is a stunning production, and Chaske Spencer’s Eli is played with such dignity - amazing. Emily Blunt is a favourite of mine and she does not disappoint. Perfectly on pitch - no overacting.
As pp have said, really shows how tough life was for women , but also for ‘good guys’. It was very dog eat dog back then.

I want to re-watch it now. A lot of little things which confused me the first time now make perfect sense e.g. in Episode One when Ciaran Hinds tells Cornelia he is going to rape her and she replies 'You're going to rape me and then I'm going to kill you' with absolute certainty. Eh? I realise now that she meant that she'd give him syphilis.

The women were presented as very strong, resilient and resourceful (morality to one side)

• such as Black eyed Mogg- imagine surviving being scalped and eyelids removed. She also had to raise two children.

• the Native American woman (losing so many children, living in a land not arable).

Agree re the woman @WotsitsQuavers. Black Eyed Mog is only meant to be mid-40s (scalped at 21 in 1868, series is set in 1890) but has endured a lifetime of brutality that's made her into what she is. And there's no mention of a husband so I strongly suspect her two sons are the result of rape.

Thank you @WotsitsQuavers, that was really interesting. So much work and attention to detail in the costume/set designs. I would still like to know why Emily wore so much make up though!!

Her sons were the result of rape. She says that it was the Indian chief, who owned his own compound and asked Eli to kill Black Eyed Mog, who raped her 'and left those 2 boys inside me.'

Clearly I need to rewatch it!

I also wondered what difference it made to the way that Cordelia behaved, that she knew (to an extent) that she was 'protected' from rape by having syphilis...

Obviously lots of other dreadful things could still happen, but that would not...
Plus her comment about being 'already dead' was very telling.

@KillingMeDeftly yes you likely do. Lots of things make a lot more sense second time around. I didn't 'get' the 'Black Widow' circus peep show scene in the last episode until I rewatched it. I think I'm right in thinking that she was the woman who gave syphilis to Malmont? So that scene where Cornelia is lying on the floor (when you see her chancre-ridden hands and then it merges her face in with that of the Black Widow), after she'd fainted, shows how their fates are intertwined and the horrible fate that awaits Cornelia.

Yes, I think the Black Widow was originally the prostitute who infected Melmont, Billy Myers, Timothy Whatshisname (who first shot his wife, then himself) and the other guy (described as 'the Thing' which does whatever Melmont asks) with syphilis.

I assumed that poor Cornelia is already the exhibit in the circus having been ravaged by the progression of the disease. It’s on my re watch list, in fact, I might make a start this afternoon.

Lots I missed first time around. I wonder if the makeup is to hide her sickness? I know we never see her apply it.

Are we to understand that it is likely some of the characters knew or suspected she had syphilis. How common was it back then? It's not an illness we talk much about now.

I also got an understanding about the origins of the gun culture. You don't see many films or dramas that focus on the treatment of the native people of America. Not here in UK anyway. You see the odd film or TV series but not that many. Would like to see more.

A rewatch is needed.

Oh yes !

@viques you could be right (it's certainly what I thought on first viewing) but when I rewatched the last episode, someone was asking about a woman (pretty sure it wasn't Cornelia) who I assumed to be the syphilitic prostitute' (it was definitely in the USA and not Britain). Then you saw the same man paying to go in to see her reveal her ravaged face in a private space.

I read an article only this week that said in Georgian Britain one in fourteen (could have been fifteen) people had Syphilis. So Cornelia's plight wouldn't have been that uncommon, even in the Upper Class.

And this from Google:

"250 years ago, over one-fifth of Londoners had contracted syphilis by their 35th birthday, historians have calculated. The same study shows that Georgian Londoners were over twice as likely to be treated for the disease as people living in the much smaller city of Chester at the same time."

Cornelia wouldnt have ended up in a freak show, she was from a wealthy family and in the last episode we see the incredible house she lives in. People who ended up as exhibits, whether forcibly or their own volition, had little or no option.

There were one or two individuals we know made their fortune through being freak-show fame but there were still economic drivers for this.

No, absolutely not. She was the daughter of an Earl, she would never have ended up in a freak show. Cornelia told Eli that she and her son were allowed to live in a house on her family estate (but not the main house). That's the same house you see her leaving from in a carriage on her way to the circus. So clearly she lives in luxurious surroundings still.

I've watched it twice and still have missed bits, partly because I can't hear all the dialogue.

I loved it, best thing I've seen in so long. My favourite bit is when she has the photo taken with Eli, it's so poignant.

She was the daughter of an Earl but I wonder what would've happened to her when her father died? If she had no brother and the title went to a distant cousin then they could've cast her out.

As for Eli, as nice as it is to think he went home and started a farm on his land, is it not more likely that he would've got back and the agreement of land wouldn't have been honoured?

But that's all too depressing, I like the more upbeat alternate endings that other posters have suggested!

This is what happened in Nebraska

Eli's stillness just stirs up my emotions. I read from one Twitter comment that she just wants to cry whenever Eli speaks. Maybe it's because we know how much suffering he has seen and been through.

I loved the photo, too. I think it was symbolic that she turns her head when it's being taken, resulting in her face being completely blurred - because her syphilis would erase her features in years to come.

My DD suggested watching it with subtitles. Never occurred to me before but might help for the scenes that are hard to hear.