This is Going to Hurt - starts 8th Feb

[ouch321]

I loved the book of this by Adam Kay. I know others weren't so keen.
BBC has dramatised this and starts in early Feb. Just a heads up for others who liked the book.

No female and male experiences in healthcare aren’t like for like. There’s a lot of evidence female patients are not taken as seriously and dismissed more than men.

@LuckySantangelo35 As someone who suffered through two corrective surgeries and countless hours of excruciating pain plus incontinence at that age of 21 due to a botched ventouse then forceps delivery (all with NO pain relief - they removed the gas and air from me!) not to mention the PTSD, I am fucking furious. But not surprised.

He’s making my skin crawl.

@airbalonz

No female and male experiences in healthcare aren’t like for like. There’s a lot of evidence female patients are not taken as seriously and dismissed more than men.

Of course that is very true. I don’t think anyone is trying to argue that isn’t the case. But that doesn’t mean that either that particular scene or this series is misogynistic.

@BitcherOfBlakiven I am so, so sorry that you were subjected to such trauma. I feel furious watching it too.

@SilverGlassHare yes I did watch it. And your complete denial of this programme and it’s creator’s blatant misogyny and the gender inequalities in healthcare that it reflects doesn’t make you look great.

@LuckySantangelo35 Can you explain to me how that scene shows that he treated the patient that way BECAUSE she is a woman. Can you explain what leads you to think he would have acted differently if he had been in charge of a procedure on a male patient.

I'm not saying you're wrong and would be happy to be educated if you could just explain your thinking on this.

I’ve read the book and can’t remember if I thought it good or not

Just looked at the review in The Guardian, who point out it’s set in 2006 - were these years meant to be better not sure

I’ll give it a go as I quite like Ben Wishaw although not sure what I’ve seen him in

Whishaw rather thought it looked wrong

@Kendodd

ignoring of consent

Where was that? Do you mean the women who didn't want an Asian doctor? There was also the women with the cord falling out of her where he acted very quickly, can't remember how much warning he gave her or consent gained.

What do they do if a patient only wants a white doctor?

What do they do if a patient only wants a white doctor?

Very patiently explain that it's not possible.

[quote LuckySantangelo35]@BitcherOfBlakiven I am so, so sorry that you were subjected to such trauma. I feel furious watching it too.

@SilverGlassHare yes I did watch it. And your complete denial of this programme and it’s creator’s blatant misogyny and the gender inequalities in healthcare that it reflects doesn’t make you look great.[/quote]
Where have I said there’s no gender inequalities in healthcare? In the post directly above yours I agree that this exists. Where have I said Adam Kay isn’t a misogynist? I say I think he is several post/ ago. You’re actually completely misrepresenting everything I’ve said. I’d respectfully suggest that if your reading comprehension is that poor, it’s possibly a sign that your opinion on literature isn’t worth very much.

The programs isn’t setting out the wrongs and rights of our healthcare system

It’s his view at times no doubt exaggerated for comic/dramatic effect

He isn’t making himself out to the perfect doctor

This is life staff are so stretched full training can’t go ahead, staff are arses at times, they are over worked and some are not particularly nice people

@MarshaBradyo

I’ve read the book and can’t remember if I thought it good or not

Just looked at the review in The Guardian, who point out it’s set in 2006 - were these years meant to be better not sure

I’ll give it a go as I quite like Ben Wishaw although not sure what I’ve seen him in

Lots of things have changed since 2006. The junior dr's don't work as many hours, there's more support & emphasis on supporting mental well-being to deal with PTSD, burnout & work life balance, the bed management is nurse led (as opposed to a non-clinical manager with a clipboard), the scrubs don't come out of a vending machine, patient consent is more explicitly explained & documented, more emphasis on dignity & respect, there are fewer "cover ups" aka duty of candour (acknowledgement that mistakes will be made but important to be honest & tell patients when a mistake has been made). I'm predicting that somebody else will come along and disagree with my comments about the changes.

I'm on episode two and I have downloaded the book today as well.
I like Ben Wishaw a lot I think this is great.
I feel so sorry for them all doing these crazy hours and the burn out they must suffer must be awful despite all the changes that have happened since this was written.
It is an eye opener.

Interesting NurseButtercup and good to hear

Re the lyrics of Northern Birds. It is a parody. Kay and his co-writer were big fans of Tom Lehrer, a Harvard maths professor, who diversified into writing satirical comedy songs in the style of various popular music genres. Highly recommended.

TL sings about the charms of Mexico as a tourist destination and enthuses about bull-fighting - 'I haven't had so much fun since my brother's dog Rover...../Got run over....
Rover was killed by a Pontiac. It was done with such artistry and skill that the driver was awarded both ears and the tail.' Obviously he is not being serious when he suggests his song should be used by the Mexican tourist board. He also satirises nuclear Armageddon, the American South and hunting as a recreation. Oh and mother love. The story of Oedipus Rex ....but he luuuuved his mother.

I don't know the context of Kay's song but I know the inspiration, which Kay has explained. I can't help feeling that it was disingenuous not to have mentioned it. It's a parody. You're not meant to take it literally.

Really enjoyed it. Just realised in Episode four, the author, Adam Kay plays the cyclist who tells his character he is a dozy twat. According to the credits anyway

patient consent is more explicitly explained & documented, more emphasis on dignity & respect

This is good to hear. I’m in a fairly big Facebook group about maternity care which has a lot of doctors and midwives in it. An obs consultant was talking about changes they’d made for theatre births that had improved women’s experiences. Examples included theatre staff staying ‘up top’ whilst women are catheterised by their midwife for an elective c-section, women only having their abdomen exposed during the surgery, also having neonatal doctors sat to the side of the woman rather than at the foot of the bed during instrumental deliveries. Heartening to read but simultaneously it seems like such basic common sense that this would improve privacy and dignity.

I have never heard of the book, or him , before now. I can imagine that loads of things are covered up , none of that surprised me.

Just starting Ep 4 - I liked the book and am enjoying the series, although it's hard to watch in some places because it's so raw.

AK as a Dr isn't supposed to be likeable - he's human. He behaves badly, is lazy, impatient, nasty, caring, tired, interested, overwhelmed - a flawed human being just like all of us.

I think it's a very interesting view into how HCPs are viewed, as it's a huge taboo to make a mistake because the consequences can be so profound and life-changing, as seen in Ep 1. But HCPs are human and we all make mistakes, yet society behaves as if HCPs should be beyond making mistakes, despite the fact that this is not ever going to be possible.

The fault here is in the system which exacerbates the likelihood of these mistakes being made, by under-staffing hospitals and relying upon exhausted people who are at the limit of their patience and their concentration. The system which treats its staff as if they should be automatons - no room for emotion, no time for breaks, not even to go to the toilet. Is it any wonder that compassion fatigue bleeds through into patient interactions?

I don't find the humour or terms offensive - it's gallows humour and so common in emergency care professions, because it's what gets you though the day. You have to detach, otherwise you'd never cope.

These days, 90% of the time, BBC releases all the episodes of a series onto iplayer when episode 1 of said series airs live on TV.
So you can have the choice of watching once a week on TV eg Tuesday 9-10pm, or, as many episodes as you like whenever you want, a la Netflix.
I think audiences prefer having flexibility so they're trying to be more like the streaming giants in that way.

I think some on this thread ought to go and watch casualty or similar instead if they want a sanitised programme regarding what it is like to be a junior doctor.

There’s a difference between making a mistake and answering a personal phone call during a delivery.

Other jobs with far less severe consequences for other people if an employee answered their phone wouldn’t allow it so why the fuck is it deemed not only “okay” but a funny fucking anecdote

@BitcherOfBlakiven

There’s a difference between making a mistake and answering a personal phone call during a delivery.

Other jobs with far less severe consequences for other people if an employee answered their phone wouldn’t allow it so why the fuck is it deemed not only “okay” but a funny fucking anecdote

I'm not defending it - but the programme is an unvarnished look at the reality. And if someone is working 80+ hours a week, then the boundaries between their personal and professional lives are at risk of blurring inappropriately. Especially if their employer treats them as if their entire life should revolve around the needs of the 'business'.

@BitcherOfBlakiven

There’s a difference between making a mistake and answering a personal phone call during a delivery.

Other jobs with far less severe consequences for other people if an employee answered their phone wouldn’t allow it so why the fuck is it deemed not only “okay” but a funny fucking anecdote

It wasn’t ‘deemed a funny fucking anecdote’. It was depicted as and later actually described as negligent and dangerously poor patient care. It certainly wasn’t shown to be ‘okay’.

SPOILERS FOR LATER EPISODES

He gets reported to the GMC partly because of that very incident, ffs. How is that showing it as okay?

It's pretty hard to show true misogyny when there are no male patients to compare it too. All patients will be treated exactly the same. They all happen to be female bechase his speciality is Obs and Gynae.

This is obviously the tale of an absolutely exhausted, disillusioned, miserable doctor who cares but CAN'T care any more, run ragged, and absolutely done with the profession. Which is why he is no longer practicing. No one is saying he is a hero, no one is saying he is the best doctor, or that he is even likeable, it's a real life story of how fucking shit doctors have it, and we are lucky that any last their training to become actual happy reliable doctors.

I was a nurse and it's very true to life really. Not in specific scenarios as such but the sentiment.