AJLT... With spoilers!

[ReeseWitherfork]

Just finished episode one and need to talk about it!!!

Didn't like much of the episode to be honest. But the ending! I'm floored! Was not expecting that.

I always thought Miranda shouldn't have got back together with Steve as him cheating was her way out. I like Steve and I think he deserves better but she was never madly in love with him.

I feel like they already explored the lesbian/ bi relationship thing back when samantha had a girlfriend. Surely Miranda would have explored her sexuality back then when she was single in her 30s? Its not like she lead a sheltered or chaste life

@Duckswaddle

We’re obviously supposed to feel sorry for Miranda (Cynthia 🙄) being married to this awful, hapless, decrepit old man who can’t satisfy her sexually anymore. Please. They were better than that. Steve was supposed to be amazing in bed, he wouldn’t just suddenly forget what to do because he’s in his early 50s. And even if Miranda did want more at this point in her life, she wouldn’t be out having affairs after everything they’ve been through together. Those terrible flashback scenes will haunt me in my dreams.

I’m finding Charlotte and Harry’s relationship very odd as well, she’s coming across as a nag and he’s bumbling along. Although I did like Harry’s reaction to ‘Rock’ and the fact that she’s 12 years old and would have ice cream for every meal if they let her.

Anthony is great and the voice of reason throughout this whole thing.

Nothing seems to be quite gelling still, it’s feeling haphazard and very woke bingo. Noted that ‘mansplaining’ was the word of this latest episode. It’s all so heavy handed. Nothing nuanced or fresh.

Still hate it but will watch til the end…

I hate what they've done to Steve and I really dislike Miranda now despite her being one of my favourites in the original.

Have the script writers even watched the original seasons? Appears not

Surely Miranda would have explored her sexuality back then when she was single in her 30s?

I guess it's a reflection on Cynthia Nixon's real-life situation. She'd only ever dated men and had 2 children with her partner. It wasn't until they split up that she met her now-wife, although she was younger than the Miranda character when that happened.

@KillingMeDeftly

Surely Miranda would have explored her sexuality back then when she was single in her 30s?

I guess it's a reflection on Cynthia Nixon's real-life situation. She'd only ever dated men and had 2 children with her partner. It wasn't until they split up that she met her now-wife, although she was younger than the Miranda character when that happened.

It's not unusual to be straight all your life then be attracted to a woman/women in your 40s or later. I know several women who have always been straight then got together with women in their 40s.

That's not strictly true, only the actress playing Blanche was early 50s. All the other Golden Girls were in their 60s. Although I do agree the tweet isn't strictly true, I'm sure Dorothy and Rose were both in their 50s. Suspect there is a disparity between the actors ages and the characters ages, but the characters were certainly of a similar age.

On the Che topic...
Read an interesting (albeit pretty obvious) article from someone talking about how Che is a disservice to non-binary people because she's such a caricature. You'd think Sara Ramirez would have something to say about the character, I struggle to imagine they don't find it problematic.

@ReeseWitherfork All the actresses were born in the early 1920s apart from Rue McClanahan. But as you say perhaps the characters were meant to be 50something. Sophia was certainly meant to be in her 80s even though Estelle Getty was younger than Betty White!

Che is a disservice to non-binary people because she's such a caricature. You'd think Sara Ramirez would have something to say about the character, I struggle to imagine they don't find it problematic

One of the defining characteristics of non binary adults is a belief that their identities are endlessly fascinating to others and that having a special gender identity makes a person special regardless of their behaviour. I would be surprised if Sara Ramirez sees any issue with the character. I would assume che and Sara are parts of the same whole, just as Miranda and cynthia now are.

[quote KillingMeDeftly]@ReeseWitherfork All the actresses were born in the early 1920s apart from Rue McClanahan. But as you say perhaps the characters were meant to be 50something. Sophia was certainly meant to be in her 80s even though Estelle Getty was younger than Betty White![/quote]
Estelle Getty was a year younger than Bea Arthur even though she played her mother on screen.

Sara Ramirez seems to be wearing the exact same clothes from madam secretary? It’s all very odd the fascination with Che and the constant (unfunny) stand-up shite.

I'd been a bit on the fence about the series until latest episode which set me up firmly in the I Don't Like It camp.

The scene with Steve and Miranda in the kitchen was just awful. Like we were supposed to believe that he had completely forgotten what to do? Like some teenager having his first experience. I feel sorry for Steve and how he is being portrayed.

Echo what PP's say about making 50 somethings act like 80 year olds, it is so odd. And insulting to the viewers as most of us are not far off that age bracket!

And most of all I hate how in every episode we are so heavily told how awesome Che is! In this ep it was the fawning fans outside that she was seemingly bored with because she is always getting so much attention. And then comes along simpering Miranda. Even if I was to believe that Che was so amazing (which I Don't), I certainly wouldn't believe that they would have even the slightest interest for the Miranda that exists in this series.

I do however like Carrie. I like how she seems almost distant. I can feel her grief, even when she is being "normal".
I would have liked to have had a glimpse of her and Big's life together. Although understand why any flashback scenes have been cut.

Charlotte's speech about how the tennis court is the only place she doesn't have to apologise was cringe.
Agree with PP who said its like the writers didn't even see previous episodes. It all feels very After School Special with the not so subtle messages.

@ReeseWitherfork

That's not strictly true, only the actress playing Blanche was early 50s. All the other Golden Girls were in their 60s. Although I do agree the tweet isn't strictly true, I'm sure Dorothy and Rose were both in their 50s. Suspect there is a disparity between the actors ages and the characters ages, but the characters were certainly of a similar age.

On the Che topic...
Read an interesting (albeit pretty obvious) article from someone talking about how Che is a disservice to non-binary people because she's such a caricature. You'd think Sara Ramirez would have something to say about the character, I struggle to imagine they don't find it problematic.

The characters were in their 50s but played by older actresses, Bea Arthur and Betty White were in their early 60s, playing women in their mid-50s. Sophia was also played by an actress in her 60s but was playing a woman in her 80s. Estelle Getty was actually younger than Bea Arthur. Blanch and Rue McClaren were the only actor and character that were the same age as each other.

They also looked much older because that was how fashions worked at the time. People generally looked older. Women in their 40s, 50s, 60s, etc didn't follow the same fashions as teenagers as we do now. They weren't ever going to walk around the house in shaped jeans and a t-shirt and pair of runners. Nowadays, a 16 year old and 66 year old could spend most of their days wearing identical clothing. And lastly, the main thing ageing the golden girls is their hair. They all had 'old lady' short hair. If they had longer hair, even in 80s styles, they would have appeared more fashionable.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Che is a disservice to non-binary people because she's such a caricature. You'd think Sara Ramirez would have something to say about the character, I struggle to imagine they don't find it problematic

One of the defining characteristics of non binary adults is a belief that their identities are endlessly fascinating to others and that having a special gender identity makes a person special regardless of their behaviour. I would be surprised if Sara Ramirez sees any issue with the character. I would assume che and Sara are parts of the same whole, just as Miranda and cynthia now are.

Crikey this mystifying. I hope it isn't true, but it doesn't sound like a stretch from the limited exposure I do have. I assumed there were quiet non-binary people living quiet normal lives. I hope there are anyway. Although I can't quite fathom why anyone labels themselves as non-binary; most women I know reject gender stereotypes. But that's probably my own ignorance of the topic.

As for the actress playing Sophia being younger than Bea Arthur... That's too much for my brain to cope with 🤯

I am so sick of the constant fawning over Che. Che has not shown any redeeming characteristics at all.

And I really hate Miranda's attitude to Steve and Che. Okay, her marriage has died, but I wish she'd deal with that rather than merrily and openly having an affair with no regard for Steve whatsoever. I'm struggling to find any sympathy for her at all. Also the shock of Carrie saying she's not interested in sex anymore. You know, just as it's okay for women to enjoy and have lots of sex, it's also okay for women not to want sex and that shouldn't be a problem.

The vomiting scene was just weird.

I assumed there were quiet non-binary people living quiet normal lives

How would their lives be any different to 'binary' people if they were quietly living them without making their gender identity a core part of their personality?

I don’t get the fawning over Che. Like just stop lol.

I absolutely hate this series I have given up now it makes me uncomfortable to watch. I agree that it feels like it had been written by someone who has never seen the original series the characters are strangers to me. Miranda is just Cynthia Nixon playing herself, Miranda would never have acted the way she has this series she was my favourite character. I cant see past Charlottes fillers and bad acting, was she always that bad???

I hate that the wokeness is shoehorned in everywhere!! The three girls all have their very own ethnically diverse friend? They could have done it all so much better but everything is shoved down your throat!

Kim Cattrall must be over the moon she didn't go back to this train wreck.

It’s like fan fiction written by a 20yo demisexual non-binary two spirit dullard, who only watched a few episodes of the original.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

I assumed there were quiet non-binary people living quiet normal lives

How would their lives be any different to 'binary' people if they were quietly living them without making their gender identity a core part of their personality?

Wow, you're absolutely right, total paradox. I can't say I've given "non binary" people much thought until now, I assumed they were putting two fingers up to gender stereotypes, but actually they're just reinforcing them aren't they ("gender stereotypes exist but I am above them").

it's all gone a bit wrong hasn't it. Charlotte is a very strange character these days. it's all a bit wince.

I assumed there were quiet non-binary people living quiet normal lives. I hope there are anyway.

Of course there are. They are called pretty much everyone on earth because while we all have a biological sex, absolutely nobody adheres to every single stereotype or genuine norm of their sex and rejects every stereotype of the opposite sex. Pretty much every single person who has ever lived has been gender non binary. However if someone takes this perfectly normal aspect of their personality, assumes it makes them a super special someone else and by default creates a narrative that means everyone else is binary. Then, realistically, that person is displaying narcissistic traits.

They are literally creating a situation that puts everyone else in a box they don't actually fit in and claiming they are super special for not being in that box. And everyone in that box needs to respect their specialness or it's invalidating. While they show no regard for the fact that what they are doing is utterly invalidating everyone else's identity. And merrily shitting on all of the work that women (and men) have been doing for generations to free people of social, sex based limitations. You simply can't identify as non-binary and go live your normal quiet life because the very act of placing a special identity on normal traits, is attention seeking.

There are however, very gender non-conforming people living normal quiet lives. There are women who dress like Che, never wear make-up, work as a mechanic, play darts and football in their spare time. There are men with long hair, who have a skin care routine and wear make up, work in fashion and enjoy baking as a hobby. But they identify as the men and women they are. And it's cool people like this, who are just happy to go about their lives, liking what they like and not making a fuss about it, who are the ones who will end up being hurt by this nonsense. I've already read plenty of comments on mumsnet and other sites from women who are being asked what their pronouns are by people who have been indoctrinated to think they are being polite, when they are actually just being hurtful.

And yes to all the posters saying this last episode either moved them officially to the hate camp or will be the last one they watch. I fast forwarded through most of the Miranda scenes (Steve in the kitchen, Che stand up and the Miranda conversation afterwards, Che and Miranda in bed) and cringed through most of Charlotte and Harry's scenes. Carrie vomiting everywhere was one of the more tolerable bits! I reckon next week I'll only be watching scenes with Antony in, if at all.

@Wanderingowl

I assumed there were quiet non-binary people living quiet normal lives. I hope there are anyway.

Of course there are. They are called pretty much everyone on earth because while we all have a biological sex, absolutely nobody adheres to every single stereotype or genuine norm of their sex and rejects every stereotype of the opposite sex. Pretty much every single person who has ever lived has been gender non binary. However if someone takes this perfectly normal aspect of their personality, assumes it makes them a super special someone else and by default creates a narrative that means everyone else is binary. Then, realistically, that person is displaying narcissistic traits.

They are literally creating a situation that puts everyone else in a box they don't actually fit in and claiming they are super special for not being in that box. And everyone in that box needs to respect their specialness or it's invalidating. While they show no regard for the fact that what they are doing is utterly invalidating everyone else's identity. And merrily shitting on all of the work that women (and men) have been doing for generations to free people of social, sex based limitations. You simply can't identify as non-binary and go live your normal quiet life because the very act of placing a special identity on normal traits, is attention seeking.

There are however, very gender non-conforming people living normal quiet lives. There are women who dress like Che, never wear make-up, work as a mechanic, play darts and football in their spare time. There are men with long hair, who have a skin care routine and wear make up, work in fashion and enjoy baking as a hobby. But they identify as the men and women they are. And it's cool people like this, who are just happy to go about their lives, liking what they like and not making a fuss about it, who are the ones who will end up being hurt by this nonsense. I've already read plenty of comments on mumsnet and other sites from women who are being asked what their pronouns are by people who have been indoctrinated to think they are being polite, when they are actually just being hurtful.

Love this post. This is pretty much where my previous post was trying to get to. You've articulated it so well.

Apparently, Steve's hearing loss is based on David Eigenberg's own hearing loss in real life: people.com/tv/and-just-like-that-star-david-eigenberg-is-going-deaf-in-real-life-writers-reveal/

I’m just so cross with the Che character. She’s just a nasty person- WHY do they all tolerate her being completely awful?! I can’t believe that this group of self assured, successful women would put up it in reality. Samantha certainly wouldn’t have!!