BBC 2 9pm Don't Exclude Me

[Snowdropsandbluebells]

Anyone watching?
It's an eye opener.

@auhsojdad

As a parent to an 'oscar' child speculation about diagnosis is offensive. Our child is not Autistic, nor ADHD and if you meet a child who is it is screamingly obvious that these conditions are not SEMH, and every teacher should be able to work this out in 10 minutes. The next speculation is that the child is 'abused' at home and I can tell you having to fight social services at the same time as trying to get your child appropriately treated is beyond traumatic, especially with school teachers pointing fingers when actually they simply do not have the training or skills to address the problems of your child. And that goes for SEN and SENCO's I am afraid except in specialist SEMH schools. Even referral units. In two weeks with skilled teachers our child was near normal. Not only was he traumatised, we were. I visited 9 schools, including all special needs. ALL teachers need to spend 3 mths at one of these schools as part of their training. 'I feel sorry for the other children', they cried when our child was excluded, they were desperate to help our child when he was locked in a room and guarded. Is he fine now, yes, does he need help with transition between years and teachers, yes. Does he need locking away? NO he is the sweetest most loving child just scared in a loud noisy room of kids.

sorry, but it is that is completely ridiculous.

I have counted up the types of SEND on my timetable in a typical year, and it is generally 20-30.

No, teachers cannot be experts in them all. We are not medics, we are educationalists. Teacher training is 2 years, and most teachers leave before working for 5 years. if you extend the training to cover all such needs in detail it would be so long that most teachers would have dropped out BEFORE qualification

For some children there are simply no interventions that would be effective, no matter how much money was spent on them. Saying we need better provision simply doesn't touch the issue

Don't be daft. All children can have their educational needs met given the right provision. Even those with the most severe disabilities.

Agreed @GreatestHits.
Maybe the distinction is though that not all children could have the right support in mainstream setting.
My son couldn't, it was in his case the whole provision that wouldn't work for him.
His specialist school is thankfully awesome.

Husband is a teacher - now in an SEMH specialist school ( has moved to SEND provision from mainstream teaching )

I also thought the restraint looked a bit questionable. The main thing that I took from it was how hard it must be for teachers to manage a class without appropriate support for those children who need it.

I’ve complained to our school because my child has been hit. Her needs aren’t being met and neither are those of the child hitting her. I don’t know what the answer is other than extra funding and support, less overwhelming settings etc but from the poster above even money might not be the solution.

Did anyone else think the teacher was a bit OTT about that £10 Jack had? That could have been dealt with very differently. But perhaps we only saw part of it.

The problem here is lack of timely support and guidance for parents and children with additional needs.

Diagnosis takes on average 30 months, with the wait even for an initial assessment at 24 months.

30 months is a very very long time in a child's life.

We need timely assessment, and more early support for children and parents. If assessment is deemed inappropriate supoort should be given.

School is left to pick up the pieces of this broken system and it is so unfair.

What I'm interested in is WHY we have these behavioural issues now.

There have always been behavioural issues. Some of the causes were not yet understood or diagnosable, and not all were (or are) down to SEN anyway. In the 'old days' difficult behaviour was probably more confined to certain schools (especially when grammar schools were widespread), schools were allowed to give more draconian punishments, and it was easier to exclude children or send them to alternative provision.

I work as a supply teacher in secondary schools. The most challenging behaviour I encounter is often not from students with ADHD or autism, but from NT students with difficult family backgrounds or with no obvious reasons for their behaviour.

Actually i found it shocking. As a Parent of a Child with SEN it was clear that these Children had a SEN. Yet no mention of any issues throughout the programme. No atrempt to understand root cause of behaviour. No expert should be saying there technique works on every child ever. Because it can't all Children are individuals. Where was the SENCO, the assesments. It was clear that these Children had sensory needs. If the root causes were addressed then the Childs behaviour would not escalate. The Teachers clearly had no training in SEN. Forcing a Child to have eye contact who is Autistic is veey damaging long term & leads to masking. Taking away a break time from a Child who has sensory needs is very damaging. Shaming & scaring a Child ibto submission does nit work long term. Oscar was asking for help on a question but was never answered & instead was punished with a series of timers. This was a form of ABA & 80's Behaviour Management. This so called expert has no training in SEN & contradicyed herself by saying all behaviour is communication but then jot listening to the Child. Furthermore in programne 2 a dangerous restraint was used which has caused real harm to Children & death in some cases in America. Numerous threads on Twitter from Parents, Autusm experts, Psychiatrists & Ed Psychs, OTs, SLTs saying how dangerous this programne wasx& how it has done nothing to address the real problem in our Schools which is lack of training in SEN & LDs in our Schools. This programme was an advert for tgis Womens business & has done nothing to address the real issues. Not to mention the issues re consent. The Childs voice was not listened to & they were filmed without their consent. I wonder how they will feel about that when they are older.

Maybe the Child in your School has SEN like Jack. Maybe he is Autistic. Change & transitiins are huge for kids with Autism or ADHD. This programme did nothing to address tge root causes of behaviour. Where was the Professional input. Not her. She is not an expert in SEN. Where were tge OT assesments the ADOS,sensory assesments, ED Psych, SLT. Even SENCO involvement. The SENCO wasn't even featured. Removing break time from a Child who is struggling to regulate behaviour does not help. It leads to masking & masking long term leads to mebtal health breakdown. How does anyone get away with saying their technique works on every child!
Not to mention the use of a dangerous restraint. Was she trained. Restraint should only be used in exceptional circumstances. This was not an exveptional circumstance. If he had been provided sensory tools & a then, now & next & other ASD techniques then it is more likely his behaviour wouldn't have escalated. So many proper experts are disgusted in this programme & its portrayal. The real issue in Schools is the lack of SEN training, large classes, not enough TAs & a one size fits all approach. I felt so sad for these Children & can guarantee that if we were to follow there journey to Senior School after years of masking it would be a different story. It was frightenly obvious that these Children had SEN & that is the real travisty here. Not one Womens programne to boost her business. Sadly the damage is done & many who have seen this will think she did a good job. I urge you to watch ut again through less rosely tinted glasses & really watch it. Why had their Teachers not considers SEN consulted Professionals.

Just watched both episodes. The approaches used were mostly good. Found it weird overall because almost all of the approaches shown are used in every primary school I've worked in as standard.

The restraint of Oscar in episode 2 is exactly what you're trained not to do. It restricts the airway. Upsetting to hear the school staff saying that the visitor had reassured them that they were doing things correctly. They need up to date training.

I don't think people realise that with all the SEN training in the world, teachers simply haven't got the time to support these children the way they need to be supported. Classes are often 30+. When a child storms out of a classroom, what exactly does the teacher do, spend 15 minutes trying to calm the child and support her needs and leave the 29 children to their own devices?

I'm not saying it's right, but it's not a simple as 'teachers need more training'. They need extra, well trained adults who can remove and support those children's needs while the teacher gets on with teaching the class, their actual job.

Totally agree @Jenster03 - in my case my son was far better off in a small group setting with specially trained teachers. He was never 'badly' behaved he just couldn't access learning in that environment - even if his teacher had been trained and spent all day just supporting him at the expense of 29 other kids it still wouldn't have worked ...

People have a weird idea about SEND schools - in truth they are often amazing - with a tailored education, curriculum and cohort selected to match your kid.

Mine has now caught up with his mainstream peers despite ASD, SPD and severe dyslexia

I agree SEN Schools can be amazing. But need to be the right kind. Some only do functional exams. There are not enough of them sadly & then the battle begins to try to get the LEA to fund a Private SEN School.. The system is broken. Training would help, especially when some Teachers punish for fidgeting. But no it isn't the only answer. We need more TA's, Teachers & smaller classes & less rigid rules for things that really don't matter & should be considered aa a reasonable adjustment

Yes always had issues. In the past some Children ended up in Borstal, Psych institutions, or missing from education.