BBC 2 9pm Don't Exclude Me

[Snowdropsandbluebells]

Anyone watching?
It's an eye opener.

Well yes anything can be edited to show things in a certain light.

Anyway I saw on twitter a suggestion that this programme is propaganda for the Government's new "behaviour hubs" - so boil everything down to "bad behaviour" and ship off to behaviour hubs, no mention of SN, but hey it's probably cheaper than specialist assessment, advice and support

One of the children clearly had self esteem issues and I thought it was obvious why. It was a product of upbringing.
I've deliberately not said which child as it seems so wrong to analyse a family like that.
Although I did find the programme interesting I also wondered about the ethics of showing those children when they are not old enough to truly consent to having their behaviour shown on screen.
And yes, I would not be happy to have my child in that class. That poor girl that got thumped. And the poor little girl who tried to sit next to one of the disruptive children and got told off by the teacher. All she tried to do was sit at what was usually her desk - it is not for her to have to judge how volatile her contemporaries are and decide to move to a new seat if it's a bad day.
Not that I blame the teacher completely either - I understand that they are at the end of their tether.
What I'm interested in is WHY we have these behavioural issues now.
I don't know enough about SEN to know if those children had it or not.
People say that we've always had children with SEN it just seems that there are more because of more diagnosis. That may be so but I think behavioural problems have got worse. Does that mean our approach to dealing with SEN has got worse? Or something in our general approach to child rearing regardless of neurotypical or neurodiverse?
My DC don't have SEN but I struggle with their behaviour more than my parents did with me and my sibs.

@a8mint

I felt so sorry for the 29 kids who were behaving. Sorry, not the pc thing to say.

You are absolutely right. Other children may not be enjoying school and lessons as much as they should. They can also resent that it seems different rules apply to different children. They may also be afraid of a child who throws chairs etc

I felt very sorry for the - apparently quiet and well behaved - little girls sitting next to the children who were being worked with. One was told to sit somewhere else, not in her usual seat, because the little boy wanted to be on his own, which was a "good choice" What behavior was that modelling for her? Nobody seemed to give that a second thought.

Maybe I'm seeing something that wasn't there, but it looked to me like little girls being told to modify their behavior to support aggressive boys.

I also thought she was trying the Supernanny approach by using a firm, non negotiating voice but to be fair it did seem to work though whether it would do long term is to be seen.
The children clearly need help, the two older ones with self esteem, how well did Jack respond to praise!
In the trailer for next time, the advisor is being attacked in the playground but I can't make out which child is pulling her hair with great force. Looks like one of the boys. Distressing to see.

@MotherofTerriers - absolutely agree. That was me at school and seems to be DD now. Obviously the boys need help but expecting a little girl to modify her behaviour so much is appalling practice.

It was the total focus on the boys that was unsettling - I can absolutely understand that the teacher has a very hard job and needs to support them. But the impact of that support on a well behaved little girl didn't seem to be considered or recognised at all. She looked stressed to me.

@MotherofTerriers

It was the total focus on the boys that was unsettling - I can absolutely understand that the teacher has a very hard job and needs to support them. But the impact of that support on a well behaved little girl didn't seem to be considered or recognised at all. She looked stressed to me.

I think it's broader than a focus on boys, but more about the focus on the child whose needs are difficult to meet in a mainstream classroom setting (there was only one girl with behaviour problems featured as I recall but several boys - I think they said somewhere that 89% of exclusions at primary level are boys?). But anyway, my point is that the children with these problems, be they boys or girls suck up so much teacher time and attention that I question whether keeping them in mainstream classrooms is fair on the other children. My son had a boy with extensive behavioural problems in his class for three years (kicked out another child's front teeth, threw chair at pregnant teacher, punched my son in the face etc). The other children were basically just expected to tolerate this.

@a8mint

I don't think if the children featured has SEN, they could have been turned around so easily. I did notice that Oscar's mum seemed to be rewarding him for his bad behaviour when he had been excluded.

I disagree.

My son is autistic and before he was diagnosed behaved similarly to Oscar. He too had some really good spells in school where he seemed 'cured' and everyone went 'phew, we've cracked it, he's just a bit naughty and needs a firm hand' but what it was really down to was a change in focus / strategy and support. The second anything slipped (usually school deciding they couldn't keep the level of support up as it was too expensive) - behaviour came right back again.

He got an ASD diagnosis and is now a model child in a SEN school because the environment is completely different and it was NEVER his fault that he was expected to conform and fail in a MS environment.

I felt very sorry for the - apparently quiet and well behaved - little girls sitting next to the children who were being worked with. One was told to sit somewhere else, not in her usual seat, because the little boy wanted to be on his own, which was a "good choice" What behavior was that modelling for her? Nobody seemed to give that a second thought.
Ditto Oscar's well behaved older sister who was doing something in the kitchen and totally ignored once Oscar came in and did his trick

But then we only see a snapshot don't we
It doesn't mean she's ignored all the other times

What I'm interested in is WHY we have these behavioural issues now.

My friend's husband was a teacher who used to repeat the same anecdote (you know the type) about how they never had kids with ADHD in the 60s when he was growing up. If someone had played up in class, they'd get a blackboard rubber thrown at their head. So, no ADHD.

In terms of the programme, I felt sorry for everyone really. The kid struggling, his classmates, his teacher, the staff... soul-destroying if you want to teach or want to learn and the lesson is constantly disrupted.

Week 2

Realised they describe her as ‘pioneering’ she seems competent but nothing I’ve seen yet is new.
The techniques she’s using are things we’ve being using for years.
The issue is more time/staffing and money. Very few schools can afford to give one child so much 1-1 time.

I think most experienced teachers could do exactly the same things as she does if they are 1 to 1 with a child with no other kids to bother about.

But they have just shown FOUR adults dealing with one very angry and violent little boy which the rest of his class is evacuated from the room and has their learning disrupted.

Ugh ugh ugh ugh

Appalling comments on here. 'Exclude them all'?!?- what sheer stupidity

Someone upthread said it best - poor SEN provision affects everyone - the children with SEND and those without.

I truly hope for these children that this makes a long term change.
My experience tells me that very often the issues and challenges reappear with every new teacher/school/ life change.
We have 2 kids where I work right now who we have ploughed time/money/blood/sweat and tears into and they are right now in a stable place where we are able to manage them in school so that 90% of their interactions are positive.

They leave us for secondary soon. It’s all going to unravel.

She’s not pioneering in any way at all. All of these teachers will have been trained in the techniques and language she is using. The male teacher with blondish scruffy hair was clearly well versed in dealing with children positively. It must have been annoying for him to have been praised by the so-called behaviour expert.

I’ve just looked her up. She runs a private behaviour management consultancy. Her colleague looks a lot like the young teacher in the episode tonight.

Truth is sometimes no matter how amazing the teacher they simply cannot devote the time and energy to those kids in a group of 30.

Also - and speaking from experience as a parent of a little boy with ASD - sometimes the whole environment of a mainstream school is just too much - sensory overload for kids who become dysregulated as a result.

My son masked extremely well at his primary, was terrified of ever putting a foot wrong behaviour wise - and was a walking bag of extreme stress as a result.

He's so much happier in his special school where the whole environment including transitions is set up to be a better sensory experience.

Poor SEND provision really does hurt everyone - and 'bad' behaviour is away s a sign of an unmet need somewhere with these kids

@a8mint

I felt so sorry for the 29 kids who were behaving. Sorry, not the pc thing to say.

Me too! I think it highlighted the detrimental impact on the other children’s well-being and detriment to their learning well. It is wearing for the teachers to have to deal with these children day in day out and it takes its toll inevitably. The staff were being assaulted regularly; you don’t go to work to be hit, kicked and punched. The young teacher cared so deeply but was so out of her depth. Oscar’s parents needed a very intensive parenting skills course and fast before he is a 6ft teenager and they have zero control over his behaviour.

@GreatestHits

Well that's the problem when children with SEND don't get the support they need. It ultimately affects everyone, not just the kids themselves. That's why everyone should be campaigning for better SEND provision 😇

This! If you don’t want your children’s education disrupted then demand that local authorities fund better SEND provision and don’t reject every ECHP application as a cost saving initiative.