BBC 2 9pm Don't Exclude Me

[Snowdropsandbluebells]

Anyone watching?
It's an eye opener.

@auhsojdad

it does, you are correct but ADHD and Autism are assumed to be the '2 conditions' - there is a whole spectrum of emotional needs and these labels make it 'this or that' - also termed 'complex needs'

apologies

Absolutely this.

My son IS autistic and has ADHD but also dyspraxia and dyslexia. He was well supported in a special school and is still getting support in a sixth form attached to a special school.

My friend's son is also autistic but has SEMH issues , he didn't cope in the special school which my son attended...they were in the same class, however he thrived in a specialist SEMH school and is now thriving in college, building computers and achieving high marks in all subjects.

It needed the right environment and the right support for him to go from the disruptive and destructive child to the bright and lovely young man he is today. He has amazing parents who have been behind him every step of the way.

I watched the second show and was appalled. Those behaviourist methods the consultant was using were discredited years ago. Children are not Pavlov's dog, they are equal human beings. Stars and 'choices' as if a small child has a choice over how their life is. The patronising tone used did not escape the kids attention either, they knew they were being manipulated.

It was very interesting. In both cases, the problem at school originated at home. In both cases, when the children were given a routine and calm boundaries (with "consequences" ) and individual adult attention, their lives were turned around.

The tragedy is that their homes and parents had not provided those basic needs.

a8mint

I felt so sorry for the 29 kids who were behaving. Sorry, not the pc thing to say.

This

@victoriaspongecake

a8mint

I felt so sorry for the 29 kids who were behaving. Sorry, not the pc thing to say.

This

I feel pity for people so devoid of empathy they believe stupid stuff like this is correct.

What do you mean?
You can feel for the other children as well as feeling for the children who were having difficulty and also the teachers as well for example, at the same time

Olivia is just such a sad child. not sure the 'expert' was having much of an effect on her.

Why is feeling sorry for all the other children. ‘Devoid of empathy’?
I’ve been the teacher in this classroom. We had 2 kids in the class with very similar behaviours to these. Disruptive, unpredictable and violent. Adults and children physically as risk on a result regular basis. I’ve been the one evacuating 25 other kids because of the one child throwing the chairs/tables/computers. These kids were 5 years old.
I’ve also seen the long term effects of this on the group of children as a whole. I watched them through to year 6. They continued to be a and anxious and fairly dysfunctional group even after the 2 others had moved on to other schools.
As a group they never recovered from the challenge of those first 2 years at school.
None of this means that I don’t feel desperately sad for the children who are struggling such as Oscar and jack.

A lot of ableism being displayed completely obliviously on this thread.

A lot of these children are reacting to the environments they're in which are simply not set up to accommodate them. The "solution" is to attempt to mould the child to fit the setting.

It's a real shame home education isn't more accepted and supported (financially and otherwise) as for some children school is never going to be the right place for them, largely because their needs aren't understood or respected.

My son is home educated because I know school would traumatise him.

@Puisanceel

A lot of ableism being displayed completely obliviously on this thread.

Totally agree

@Smartiepants79 I have been the child in that class. The impact it had on me I think is being under estimated by some on this thread.

Yes children with autism/ADHD/SEMH have a right to support and an education but so do the rest of the class.

Yes children with autism/ADHD/SEMH have a right to support and an education but so do the rest of the class

Many children with those conditions actually mask and go under the radar. I was one such child, my son would be another if he were at school. There will be tonnes of children really suffering in a school environment who don't necessarily display outwardly destructive behaviours.

It's in everyone's best interest for good SEND provision to be in place and different needs respected.

[quote 3cats4poniesandababy]@Smartiepants79 I have been the child in that class. The impact it had on me I think is being under estimated by some on this thread.

Yes children with autism/ADHD/SEMH have a right to support and an education but so do the rest of the class.[/quote]
I agree which is why children with SEND need the right kind of support.

My sibling is autistic. That was hard, what was harder was my sibling being miserable at school and melting down at home. When he was pulled out of school and put in a tiny hippy independent school that met his needs, it benefited him and me.

Him being told to “pull himself together” which to be honest feels like what many people are saying, really wouldn’t have worked because he wasn’t mentally capable of doing that. The environment was making him ill.

If you can’t relate think of a really toxic work environment, where you have zero control, you’re constantly told you are under performing despite doing your level best but you are never allowed leave and get a better job. You’d feel pretty stressed. After a while, you’d probably stop trying.

I'm equally relieved on this thread to see many passionate people that know what they are talking about personally and professionally demonstrating why proper SEND provision matters for everyone.

Equally dismayed to see a few pig ignorant ableist people devoid of empathy to small children with disabilities - putting it down to being 'naughty' or 'it didn't happen in my day' or inferring these kids have any kind of agency and choice over their disabilities. Take a look at your callous, mean-minded, petty selves will you.

I've not watched it yet (having a child with additional needs myself, TV time isn't something I have much of )

However I have seen this... Team Teach (who seem to be the main organisation teaching school staff about safe restraint) are not in favour of the approach or holds used in the programme.

I thought he was pulling hair when they decided to restrain him?

Interesting response from Team Teach whose methods a lot of schools use.

MG grabbed him by the back of his jumper after he kicked the bucket of balls. She then had him on the floor and then he pulled her hair.

Oh right I'll have to watch it again I think

i haven't watched this but i will. my daughter has attachment disorder and dissociative identity disorder. when she is under pressure she dissociates. she was sent of the class for not doing her work and staring into space (dissociating!). this then led to her in pastoral where they wouldn't leave her to come back round they just went on and on. she begged them to stop talking to her and let her calm down but they wouldn't. she then went into fight or flight,'she said some not very things and walked out of the room and they told her if you don't come back in we will exclude you. she did come back in and later when she back engaged she apologised. they excluded her anyway! no formal letter, wasn't informed of the length of the exclusion no work set, just a phone call to say she can't come in tomorrow as we've excluded her.

i'm at reintegration meeting on tuesday. the law states that to exclude a child with an ECHP for behaviour arising from their disability you have to exhaust all possibilities and make reasonabl nadjustment to keep the child in school.

i don't believe this has been done. if they had just left her staring into space to come round then none of this would have happened. i now have a child who doesn't trust adults and has severe attachment issues wondering why she can't go into school as they have her a choice and she made the right one but she's punished anyway. she was that dissociated when she kicked off she can't even remember it.

it's appalling it really is. i'm so angry.

I haven't watched the programme but i work in a whole school team teach trained environment and there was a lot of talk in work about how inappropriate the holding was and how messy it was. I will have to watch.

Sometimes you do have to hold a child but it should always be a last resort and you should always be able to justify iin sufficiently enough for it to stand up in court.

Make sure you get the official exclusion letter hammertofall if you're on FB Educational Equality and Not Fine in School have some really helpful members who are very up on exclusions etc.

The not giving space was a reoccurring issue with DS3, they trapped him in his "safe" room then wondered why he wouldn't go in there anymore! I'm not sure whether it was just faux wide-eyed innocence tbh

@a8mint

I felt so sorry for the 29 kids who were behaving. Sorry, not the pc thing to say.

It's the truth.

I'm the mum of the autistic boy who could cause disruption some days or be so quiet and withdrawn you forgot he existed the rest!

I never felt it fair that his needs being u met affected not only him getting an education but all the others.

It's often a shit situation all round and if people are scared to admit, discuss and accept that it'll never get better.

Oh and that hold was absolutely

For a start no need to hold his legs - move out the way!

Secondly the position he was in all bent forward with pressure around his chest.

I'm an advanced trainer for de escalation and teach holds for those few occasions it fails. I was horrified and cringing at how she held him.

I'm not even sure it was necessary at that point either but can accept we didn't see the whole picture.