The Handmaids Tale S4 at C4 pace (no spoilers) thread 3

[MotionActivatedDog]

New thread!

Why would Canada send Serena back to Gilead? They want to prosecute her for war crimes.

Probably because this case is specifically against the Waterfords and they were not personally involved in Emily’s mutilation.
Also Emily may not be up for giving evidence in court, which is a difficult thing to do at the best of times.

@Worried1305

Why isn’t Emily’s experience being used as evidence? She was physically mutilated by Gilead - even if the defence tries to say that it is “June’s word against the Waterfords”, surely Emily’s experience is quite difficult to dispute?

It is also even more disgusting (though perhaps still believable given some of the crazy religious people over in the US) for those protestors to be defending Gilead / the Waterfords when there is actual evidence of the regime practicing FGM on gay women.

I think it's because it's a case specifically against the Waterfords, and as far as I'm aware, Emily didn't have any direct involvement with them, beyond being June's walking partner.

Moira had a testimony against Fred read out (we saw Serena read it to Fred) as he raped her at Jezebels.

But then the specificity of only people with direct involvement with the Waterfords doesn't account for Moira persuading Emily to channel her anger against Aunt Irene and asking her to testify against the regime.

I guess the point is that as an Aunt, she'd be more believed than a Handmaid.

I rewatched last weeks, and it was really stark that Luke and Moira are really oblivious and insensitive to how June needed to be allowed to be Nicole's mother.

The morning she woke up to find them playing happy families, june went straight to interacting with nicole, and Moira said I'll go shopping , then she walked inbetween June and nicole and picked her up and just walked off with her, disregarding June as the mother, just like Serena would have.

Also Moira said I'll take nicole too give you time together and Luke agreed that would be a great idea. No body ask june, no body for a minute thought or even saw that June wanted to be with her own daughter, and make those decisions as a mother as to when and where her daughter went without her.

again once in the shop, it wasn't June given the opportunity to push her daughter round the shop or given the chance to change her nappy.

I can see how all this leaves june with no job and no focus, She's not really part of a family, she's still cut off from Nicole. What else has she got left? if she isn't allowed to focus on being Nicole's mother.

I rewatched last weeks, and it was really stark that Luke and Moira are really oblivious and insensitive to how June needed to be allowed to be Nicole's mother.

No one is talking' that's the problem. Everyone is tiptoeing around June, walking on eggshells, and she isn't able to say what she wants. Although she is able to say what she wants in respect of other things - like insisting she would read her victim statement. I don't think any of them know what they or the others need!

like insisting she would read her victim statement. I don't think any of them know what they or the others need

Like again not listening when she said I don't want you there, I don't want you to hear it. I really feel for Luke he is desperate to help and understand and he's hurting so much too. But by not listening and taking no for answer he's adding more nails in his coffin and June is feeling less trusting and abuse all over again.

Her feeling and wishes as a mother are Disregarding, her openly saying don't come, completely ignored. it's not physical abuse but it's that subtle abuse of not being allowed to have any sort of control over your life.

Like again not listening when...

...Emily said she wasn't ready to see the Aunt.

No one is talking or listening. It's unfair to single out Luke and Moria,

Obviously I don't think it is unusual not to be talking or listening to others in this situation. I imagine it is very common.

'This situation' being traumatic situations in general, not specifically this 😂

Emily said she wasn't ready to see the Aunt

I do agree with you.

I wonder why Irene wasn't prosecuted. Maybe she provided information about Gilead or maybe she pretended to be a Martha?

@NewYearNewTwatName

I rewatched last weeks, and it was really stark that Luke and Moira are really oblivious and insensitive to how June needed to be allowed to be Nicole's mother.

The morning she woke up to find them playing happy families, june went straight to interacting with nicole, and Moira said I'll go shopping , then she walked inbetween June and nicole and picked her up and just walked off with her, disregarding June as the mother, just like Serena would have.

Also Moira said I'll take nicole too give you time together and Luke agreed that would be a great idea. No body ask june, no body for a minute thought or even saw that June wanted to be with her own daughter, and make those decisions as a mother as to when and where her daughter went without her.

again once in the shop, it wasn't June given the opportunity to push her daughter round the shop or given the chance to change her nappy.

I can see how all this leaves june with no job and no focus, She's not really part of a family, she's still cut off from Nicole. What else has she got left? if she isn't allowed to focus on being Nicole's mother.

I agree - there are parallels between this house and the Waterford house: June on the outskirts looking in on the "mum" "dad" and child.

I wonder why Irene wasn't prosecuted. Maybe she provided information about Gilead or maybe she pretended to be a Martha?

She gave a false name and pretended to be a normal refugee.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria it's another of the Bristol massive - Trickys Hell is around the corner, heavily sampled with glory box. The soundtracks are always so spot on.

Glory box is one of my favourite songs, so the episode is off to a good start!

I like angry June btw. Possibly biased by having personal experience of ptsd. The happy clappy, forgive whoever hurt you "for your own sake" view of trauma is over-prevalent IME.

I thought it was really interesting that June finished the episode by telling Luke she needed to tell him about the last time she saw Hannah. Once she has shared that, she may be able to relate to him better, and he needs to know the true extent of her anger and the reason for it.

I don't think it is quite the same for Moira as the others because presumably all of them had a child or children taken from them forcibly, like June, which Moira didn't.

There's a spotify playlist with the songs on. On the free version for anyone without a subscription to premium.

Just catching up. Amazing imagery with the aunt at the group. Sitting her in the middle on a red chair with the former handmaids sat on teal chairs around her. Like the shaming circles at the red centres but now the handmaids have the power.

@CleanQueen123

Just catching up. Amazing imagery with the aunt at the group. Sitting her in the middle on a red chair with the former handmaids sat on teal chairs around her. Like the shaming circles at the red centres but now the handmaids have the power.

I wish I was more observant to such details. You guys are so switched on.

I’m planning on going for a walk after dinner so I can listen to eyes on Gilead without distractions

Sooo wanted June to punch Fred in the court room the music in this programme is amazing who sung this weeks ?

I was so scared, I thought Serena was going to get shot in the belly at the end, and I can't handle that.

I think I have Stockholm syndrome about aunt Lydia - because I know she's completely vile and evil, but I always get sucked in and what her to be"caring". Such a good actress.

Gah, how can they see what they're eating. So depressing to sit in the dark

Wow, I read last night's episode so wrong. I really like Moira, and felt annoyed that she was undermined by June in the library meeting.
Also, when June cut her hair at the start, I thought 'oh trust her not to go to the bloody hairdresser like any other person'.

And during the trial, she recounted certain things that were different to my memory of them. For example, did Serena watch June and Nick having sex? I thought they had a secret affair, but I could be wrong.

I loved the episode and it was extremely well done, don't get me wrong, but I think I'm just at the stage where June gets on my nerves a bit.

And during the trial, she recounted certain things that were different to my memory of them. For example, did Serena watch June and Nick having sex? I thought they had a secret affair, but I could be wrong.

Both. Serena instigated them having sex to make her a baby but they also had an affair seperate to that. However that was consensual and whilst it might be against Gilead rules, it's not against the law.

When the defence started on about June having an affair with a married man, I know they were talking about Luke but I wondered if they were going to spill the beans on the affair with Nick but then I couldn't remember if they carried on after he was married to Eden?

Yes the first time they had sex it was Serenas idea and they both had no choice, and she watched, which is why she's in court.

I think June's statement left out alot, like the trip to Jezebel's, that was an non ceremony rape.

Aunt Lydia is one of the best written and performed characters. She so complex.

I suppose she had seasons worth of stuff that happened to condense into a shortish statement. Maybe a time/word limit?

This isn't the trial yet though isn't it? I'm not sure what the purpose is here, to establish if there is enough of a case to proceed?