The Handmaids Tale S4 at C4 pace (no spoilers) thread 3

[MotionActivatedDog]

New thread!

Why would Canada send Serena back to Gilead? They want to prosecute her for war crimes.

I have to say I’ve been really blown away by the Moira actors performance. It’s not in your face like June’s character. It’s really soft and subtle and you can feel her feelings. If that makes sense.

I felt like everything Aunt Lydia said to Janine was really for herself.

Commander Lawrence is an interesting one. He was devoted to his wife by all accounts, trying to keep her safe and her mental state hidden - when she died, it’s like he figured he had nothing to lose anymore and just does what puts him in a comfortable position until his luck runs out.

I was so shocked by the protestor scene until I realised that’s exactly what would happen on reality - people would ignore the woman detailing her abuse as it’s simply not important to them. The way she spoke into the camera was so powerful.

Glory Box And then someone made it into rap, and I liked it.

And, June's softened at the end, "I need to tell you about Hannah" Yes, you do, lovely. Cos her anger is centred on her belief that she failed Hannah. If June can get a handle on her anger and use it as a tool she may not self destruct.

FandSJ are dangerous, though. They are strategists and they are not angry.

It's a great dynamic.

trying to keep her safe and her mental state hidden
Yes, good point - June said only nice things about the Lawrence's. She's "outed" Cmdr L as a victim of Fred.

Also an interesting dynamic.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I didn’t see June wanting to tell him about Hannah as softening. I felt she was looking for something that would get Luke as angry as she is. I think she was really hurt by his comment after the court hearing about knowing everything that had happened to her and wanting to move on. That June feels he really doesn’t understand how bad it has been for her and that she still needs to hold onto her anger (and draw others into it) to keep fighting for Hannah.

Currently watching

I do think the quality has declined and it should have ended seasons ago. There are some good parts but a lot of bad parts and plot holes so big, they may as well be the Grand Canyon.

RE the pro Gilead group, maybe they believe that Gilead’s way must be working because of the increasing birth rate. Consequences be damned

@Ireallymustgetup yes i agree with you! Luke's comment to 'move on' must have pissed her right off.. get angry and stop protecting him!

Anyone notice the bird's eye shot of the women at the meeting in a circle? It panned out and had two white lights either side on a table within the circle thst looked like the handmades white hats.

V clever

I agree June is seriously traumatised and certainly don't expect her to look happy, but she has exactly the same expression on her face all the time now, vengeful and furious, with the occasional evil smile. Not sure where this story is heading.

I found Moira's attitude in group really annoying actually.

Trying to lead them towards the light sort of thing and paint over those angry feeling, it almost invalidates what they have been through, her trying to stop them from being angry. It is another form of the whole "women be nice message"

All those therapy groups she ran with them did nothing to address how they really felt because she wanted them to talk about their feelings, along as it wasn't rage, that was a no no.

it obviously didn't work because all that rage was still there bubbling under the surface once June shattered the illusion you don't have to pretend to be sad or feel guilty that the aunt killed herself, they all very quickly wanted to talk of their anger, as much as Moira wished she could stifle those feelings in them it is impossible, it's there, it's real and they need to be allowed to acknowledge that and explore it.

I did think that about Luke, he listened to her for 10 mins and openly said he thinks he knows everything now when she was only testifying about the Waterford’s, had a posting before and after that and didn’t speak about anything except the Waterford’s, bad choice of words for Luke to use.
It seems like everyone expects her to be glad now she’s out and just move on but how could you?

Am I right in thinking Moira never lost a child to Gilead the way some of the others have?

Ireally oh yes, that makes sense.

Female anger is an under explored theme in stories and life. Am looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

Luke is trying but hhe's a bit wet and passive and I did think "oh dear" when he arrived to hear her testimony after she specifically told him not to. He didn't listen to her, and having your "no" heard matters to any women.

The circle was beautifully shot. Emily had a starburst of light behind her head. I did not expect her answer to how she felt about the Aunt's suicide.

Janine - uh oh. Also, why was her eye bleeding under the dressing? She'd been tortured before Lydia got to her?

Countess no, I don't think Moira had a baby.

Why was the defence allowed to question June when it was a pre-trial hearing and a written statement would have been sufficient? Obviously they couldn't ask questions if it had been just a written statement.

Moira's attitude also irritated me in this episode. Damn right they need to feel and express their anger. But June's roughshodding over Emily wasn't right either.

Emily seems completely broken, like a shell of herself.

And poor Janine. Always the victim. What will become of her? She is alone now.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Am I right in thinking Moira never lost a child to Gilead the way some of the others have?

Moira was a surrogate for a British couple. She had a baby but willingly gave him up.

I think that puts her handmaid experience in a different light as well. She knew she'd be executed for being gay if she didn't go along with this. I expect she felt that she could be a surrogate again, but when she found out she actually had to have sex with a man.... that was a step too far.

She never had a handmaid posting, but did spend a lot of time in jezebels

No she didn't but she was a surrogate so she has some experience of what it us like to have a baby and then give it away.

Although Moira's surrogacy was her choice.

I had completely forgotten about that!

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Am I right in thinking Moira never lost a child to Gilead the way some of the others have?

No but she lost her fiancée

Also moira was in jezebels for at least a couple of years being abused by men

Just been reading comments from men on twitter saying they wished she smiled more

So, “Cheer up, love!”?! FFS

Why isn’t Emily’s experience being used as evidence? She was physically mutilated by Gilead - even if the defence tries to say that it is “June’s word against the Waterfords”, surely Emily’s experience is quite difficult to dispute?

It is also even more disgusting (though perhaps still believable given some of the crazy religious people over in the US) for those protestors to be defending Gilead / the Waterfords when there is actual evidence of the regime practicing FGM on gay women.

@Worried1305

Why isn’t Emily’s experience being used as evidence? She was physically mutilated by Gilead - even if the defence tries to say that it is “June’s word against the Waterfords”, surely Emily’s experience is quite difficult to dispute?

It is also even more disgusting (though perhaps still believable given some of the crazy religious people over in the US) for those protestors to be defending Gilead / the Waterfords when there is actual evidence of the regime practicing FGM on gay women.

Maybe it is - we don't know?

@Worried1305

Why isn’t Emily’s experience being used as evidence? She was physically mutilated by Gilead - even if the defence tries to say that it is “June’s word against the Waterfords”, surely Emily’s experience is quite difficult to dispute?

It is also even more disgusting (though perhaps still believable given some of the crazy religious people over in the US) for those protestors to be defending Gilead / the Waterfords when there is actual evidence of the regime practicing FGM on gay women.

Also it's the Waterfords on trial, not Gilead as a whole so Emily's experience may be irrelevant.