The Handmaids Tale S4 at C4 pace (no spoilers) thread 3

[MotionActivatedDog]

New thread!

Why would Canada send Serena back to Gilead? They want to prosecute her for war crimes.

If Nicole is the Commanders then there is no case against Serena Joy.

Didn't she set up the system that created the Handmaids?

Ok, phew.

I'm delighted to have dodgy insight. You're right, there's plenty corroborating evidence and June'll be ok.

They are going to need to speak to Nick somehow aren't they?
Perhaps Fred will somehow bring him in to testify in support and Nick will be in a very sticky position about which side to testify for and be forced to reveal himself one way or the other. Just a thought

Fred isn't Nicole's father. I believe the show runner when they said that he's not.

As well as the Gilead survivors in Canada they also have all of the letters that were smuggled out of Gilead. These letters showed the rest of the world what was happening inside Gilead. IIRC Nick gave them to Luke who then posted them online. This horrified the Canadians who all protested at Fred and Serena's diplomatic trip to Canada. That was when Luke confronted Fred in front of the huge crowd outside a government building shouting "you rape my wife".
I would be really surprised if Fred and Serena were just allowed to return to Gilead, but seeing as though they have an upcoming trial anything could happen.

Nick won't go against Gilead. Gilead suits him just fine. He was only thinking about his dick when he helped June, and even then only helped when it was relatively low risk.

I really wish Canada wouldn't treat Fred and serena so well in their luxury prison. Surely their high status in Gilead is directly proportional to what human scumbags they are. Canada should not legitimise their status, though I can understand that it's protocol and perhaps a way to get them to cooperate. Still

It really is strange seeing them in such luxurious “prison” surroundings. Is that normal in Canada for some types of prisoners?

Presumably they still have some sort of diplomatic status?

Yes that must be it. It’s almost like they’re under house arrest, just not in their own house, obviously.

@Saidtoomuch

Nick won't go against Gilead. Gilead suits him just fine. He was only thinking about his dick when he helped June, and even then only helped when it was relatively low risk.

If he was only thinking about his dick then he wouldn't have tried on multiple occasions to get her out of Gilead.

@Saidtoomuch

Nick won't go against Gilead. Gilead suits him just fine. He was only thinking about his dick when he helped June, and even then only helped when it was relatively low risk.

I don't think that's true - he did fall in love with June.

@BIWI

Presumably they still have some sort of diplomatic status?

They are high level in gilead. Presumably highest ranking they have available? wouldn't put an arrested dictator in with other low ranking people. Maybe need to look at ICJ and milosevic etc? Was he held in different level of cell? They have tonnes of witness evidence against them and their regime

I find the power structure confusing. In S1 and 2, I thought Fred and co were part of a national government but then in S3, when Fred and Serena went to Washington, it seemed like there was a higher structure, that he was keen to be part of. Now in S3, we seem to have the original guys making decisions about bombing Chicago. Can anyone clarify?

S4 I meant!

@Saidtoomuch

Nick won't go against Gilead. Gilead suits him just fine. He was only thinking about his dick when he helped June, and even then only helped when it was relatively low risk.

Not just his dick but he's got nothing but prison waiting outside gilead so he's committed

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

He could testify against Serena re the rape of June and possibly be granted immunity?

On the whiteboard in the last episode it said "Ally?" under his name.

I kind of get the impression that nick has a shit load of information he could offer Canada in return for immunity. Not just info on Serena. He was an eye for commander pryce wasn’t he? And when the Swiss? Would speak with him in a previous season- we never got to hear why. I’m hoping that will be revisited.

*wouldnt

I have high hopes that Nick is a mole inside the heart of the Gilead power base and will at some stage escape in the hope of being with June and Nicole.

Which will be interesting - would June leave Luke to be with Nick?

No. I don't think nick and June's relationship would work outside the situation- like when you're bezzie mates in work, then one leaves and it just drifts.

Probably wouldn't be a healthy relationship either. I would suspect June might be done with men for a long while.

I've always felt Nick and June's relationship was a bit like a prison relationship - it's great when your options for companionship and sex are limited, but out in the real world it just fizzles. I'm not sure N and J have anything in common really, and I know June said 'I love you' this series but in earlier episodes I felt that June liked Nick, and liked having sex with him, and really liked the possibility of escaping with his help, but that was as far as it went.

Can someone help me out with Nick?

He was a driver/part of the security detail for a Commander's household, so quite lowly - and then he became a commander himself. Why the elevation?
If the reward came because he was also an Eye (I assume these are a sort of KGB/Stasi/Taliban enforcers of orthodoxy), that can only be because he was trusted to be an ultra in ideological terms, and spy on the high-ranking families with whom he is posted, to ensure purity in all the key parts of the hierarchy.

So if he was an Eye, and his humble status as a driver was really just a pretext for spying upon the Commander and keeping his household in line, how could Serena have had any power over him? Wouldn't she have been terrified of ending up on the wall?

Has it ever been made clear what Nick has done that makes defection from Gilead impossible?

Surely June's love for Nick is just the consequence of them both being in a horrible prison? Even if he's helped build the walls? (which is why I would hope she'd choose Luke over Nick if it came to such a choice).

Oh, and speaking of Luke - I think he consented to the angry sex with June, understanding that this was something she needed to try take control back, and feel something rather than trauma over sex. Shit sex, yes, sex where one person is just trying to absorb the other's pain and relieve them of it, but still consensual.

I agree with both of you from June's perspective but I think Nick is way more invested in their relationship. He has put himself at risk several times now to help June and ensure her escape to be with Nicole.

What would he do when he realises that June is either still with Luke or more likely eternise to be alone with her children and doesn't want a textbook happy ending with Nick and Nicole?

@Tightwad2020

Can someone help me out with Nick? He was a driver/part of the security detail for a Commander's household, so quite lowly - and then he became a commander himself. Why the elevation? If the reward came because he was also an Eye (I assume these are a sort of KGB/Stasi/Taliban enforcers of orthodoxy), that can only be because he was trusted to be an ultra in ideological terms, and spy on the high-ranking families with whom he is posted, to ensure purity in all the key parts of the hierarchy.

So if he was an Eye, and his humble status as a driver was really just a pretext for spying upon the Commander and keeping his household in line, how could Serena have had any power over him? Wouldn't she have been terrified of ending up on the wall?

Has it ever been made clear what Nick has done that makes defection from Gilead impossible?

Surely June's love for Nick is just the consequence of them both being in a horrible prison? Even if he's helped build the walls? (which is why I would hope she'd choose Luke over Nick if it came to such a choice).

Oh, and speaking of Luke - I think he consented to the angry sex with June, understanding that this was something she needed to try take control back, and feel something rather than trauma over sex. Shit sex, yes, sex where one person is just trying to absorb the other's pain and relieve them of it, but still consensual.

Nick is an enigma and I think that's been a deliberate decision by the writers.

Not sure how he comes across in the book as I've not read it.