The Handmaids Tale S4 at C4 pace (no spoilers) thread 3

[MotionActivatedDog]

New thread!

Why would Canada send Serena back to Gilead? They want to prosecute her for war crimes.

@Saidtoomuch

I missed "shredders" what the hell is that all about, or am I best not knowing

It was Atwood's word in the book for babies born with severe disabilities which were common due to the nuclear poisoning

@CloseYourEyesAndSee oh dear, thank you.

@RiaOverTheRainbow

Oliver has duel citizenship, Gilead (at least at that point) had no power to detain foreign nationals. Emily carried him, I don't think we know his genetic parentage but I assumed she was his biological mother.

I assumed rightly or wrongly that if Gilead didn't accept their marriage as being legal then if the child was biologically Emily's then they wouldn't accept the dual nationality so wouldn't have let her wife take him.

@EBearhug

June inflicted non-consensual sex on Luke...not sure what you'd call that other than rape?

In the UK, rape has to involve a penis. In the UK, I think it would be some sort of sexual assault. In other countries, it would count as rape. It is legal semantics according to the jurisdiction you're in. I don't know about Canada, and I particularly don't know about Canada in a dystopian world that includes Gilead.

I really hope they explore this further in the series as sexual violence against men is often forgotten (because it's far far worse for women of course)

In the UK, rape is defined as intentional penetration of the vagina, anus or mouth with a penis without consent.

No idea about Canada.

In the UK what June did would be sexual touching. It can carry the same sentence as rape depending on the severity.

Yes would still be an offence.
It was a tough watch whichever.

I am going for a walk later so I can listen to the podcast uninterrupted

@OverByYer

Women can’t commit rape, you can only rape someone of you have a penis.

It was akin to rape though as she was exerting power over Luke. She was totally wrapped up in herself and her own pleasure, almost to the point of anger.

In the U.K. yes but in the US it depends on the state, not sure about Canada.

Whether it is legally rape or not, June has violated the implicit trust between them.

There’s a bonus podcast episode with the writer of this episode Yahlin Chan. I had a very long walk

Agree with the above recommendation of 'this way up' as an easy watch to destress afterwards.

Bit random but I was surprised at the depiction of canada as the 'promised land' of plenty with all the well dressed people in the luxurious hotel, well stocked supermarket etc. If it's been 7 years since June was captured, and a significant birth rate decline for at least a decade or so before that, I would have thought that would have had an effect on all countries (remembering the mexico delegate a few seasons ago) by now - with people getting older but hardly any new, young people entering the workforce? Surely that would have significant knock on effects? Similarly usually when there's a huge influx of immigration you'd expect protests, that all the Americans escaping from gilead are taking up canadian jobs, resources, etc. but there's nothing.

I'd also quite like to hear about other countries - how are different parts of Europe managing with the fertility crisis? Is the UK more Canada or more Gilead? Oona is obviously English, so what's her story?

I mean I understand why they don't want to overcomplicate the story but I do love a bit of world building!

@OverByYer

There’s a bonus podcast episode with the writer of this episode Yahlin Chan. I had a very long walk

I was wondering about that, is it safe from spoilers?

Hi yes it’s safe. Lots of fan girling from all sides.

Just caught up. Elizabeth Moss in the scene with Serena. Just - WOW. I thought that was an incredible moment. Also the flashback to Gilead when she was out shopping served as a horrifying reminder to me of what June has been through. I feel like the levels of violence and cruelty have been so appalling from the very beginning that we as the viewers have almost become desensitised to it. June is doing remarkably well, considering. The ending was very unnerving. Not sure what I think about that yet!

@OverByYer

Hi yes it’s safe. Lots of fan girling from all sides.

Thanks!

@Lnix

Just caught up. Elizabeth Moss in the scene with Serena. Just - WOW. I thought that was an incredible moment. Also the flashback to Gilead when she was out shopping served as a horrifying reminder to me of what June has been through. I feel like the levels of violence and cruelty have been so appalling from the very beginning that we as the viewers have almost become desensitised to it. June is doing remarkably well, considering. The ending was very unnerving. Not sure what I think about that yet!

I'm rewatching from the beginning of series 1 and I definitely feel I am desensitised to the traumatic scenes. There are scenes that I was truly shocked at when I watched them the first time round - on rewatching I was surprised at the fact that they didn't elicit any reaction.

Tuello…definitely something fishy up with him. Why did he tell Serena “it could help us both” if she were to work with Fred? (I may have picked that up wrong but seemed he was encouraging a reconciliation?)

Luke…ah Luke…after being mildly to moderately irritated by him through the entire series so far, I finally felt sympathy for him. The sex scene was harrowing.

I'm confused about Emily and Oliver. I remember the airport scene where she was separated from her partner and child, but can't remember how she got to Canada eventually? Is she living with her partner?

@Clawdy

I'm confused about Emily and Oliver. I remember the airport scene where she was separated from her partner and child, but can't remember how she got to Canada eventually? Is she living with her partner?

Commander Lawrence got her out. Her and June, but June handed Emily baby Nichole and decided to stay.

She took a few weeks before she contacted her and wife to say she was in Canada. And she moved back in IIRC

Ah, thanks.

I loke the fact that they are showing that it's not all hearts and flowers when people have escaped such atrocities and reunited with their loved ones. What a toll it must take on all parties.

I was thinking of the journalist who was captured (Beirut in the 80s maybe? ) and his girlfriend worked tirelessly to keep him in the spotlight to help get him freed. I was pretty young and was so sad that their relationship didn't last when he finally was freed. But of course it's understandable. So many changes to a person when they have gone through something like that. As we see too clearly with June.

That was John McCarthy @Breathmiller

I agree. They’re showing that June is 'damaged goods' rather than the heroine they are clearly pigeon-holing her as.

Plus she’s also having to deal with her own feelings about not being the 'top dog' (sorry, couldn’t think of a more appropriate description!) in the new household. Moira is Nichole's 'mum' and also Luke's 'wife'. I wonder if the sex scene was as much about her trying to reclaim her position as his wife? But also showing how much the brutality she has suffered has come to influence her behaviour?

I agree with thevassal. At present the bulk of Canada’s trade is with the US. If the US became Gilead, some of the trade would switch to other countries but some wouldn’t happen. Canada wouldn’t be the prosperous country that we see in the show.

There’s no way they’d leave June alone with Serena - there was some risk that she’d kill her.

I think Truollo (sp?) isn’t on anyone’s side. He’s been playing Serena. He will also be aware that June can’t be treated as an unbiased witness.

I think that Oliver was from Emily’s egg but her wife carried him. The guard asked Emily whether it was her egg when they were trying to leave.

Canada wouldn’t be the prosperous country that we see in the show.
But with Gilead struggling to provide for itself, countries might be trading with Canada instead of the USA.

I may have misremembered but when Luke first got to Canada I thought I remembered lots of poverty, living in cramped flats, having to queue to get nappies for the baby etc.

@MotionActivatedDog

I may have misremembered but when Luke first got to Canada I thought I remembered lots of poverty, living in cramped flats, having to queue to get nappies for the baby etc.

Yeah, in the earlier seasons Luke was in a small flat and he mentioned shortages. He was living with Erin (who seems to have gone)

But he's been out for 7 years hasn't he. He will have made a life for himself and could well have taken Canadian citizenship