Call the Midwife...or the Turners?

[Maireas]

I noticed that the last thread was full, so I hope no-one minds that I've started a new one!

I have a 1948 health book. It was intended for use in the home to look up illnesses. Children with Down's syndrome are referred to as "Mongolian idiots" and stereotyped as "the last of a large family" and "happy people who love music." It's horrific that people thought like that so recently. Has anyone else noticed the dialogue in CTM is a bit narrative when a look how modern we are type moment comes up? Such as person A refers to old term. Person B replies oh no we mustn't say X, the correct term is now Y, it's considered more kind and progressive. Person A oh yes you're right, I expect the law will change soon so we can't say X anymore. It's such a big change for disabled people. Etc.

@Maireas

Poor Tim. Creamed courgettes, Liebfraumilch and saucy parental banter.....

Sheila holding that tiny wineglass the way she handles Dr T's 'courgette'...

@Maireas

Poor Tim. Creamed courgettes, Liebfraumilch and saucy parental banter.....

It could have been worse. Sheila could have served them avocado pear with custard.............

I think the problem with Call the Midwife is that it is meant to be light entertainment so they can't go in with full authenticity for the things that are really offensive now. It's done the same way everything else is handled sensitively.

There would have been some people with that degree of tolerance and "modern" thinking but they've made sure that they are all gathered in one place!

@SoupDragon

I think the problem with Call the Midwife is that it is meant to be light entertainment so they can't go in with full authenticity for the things that are really offensive now. It's done the same way everything else is handled sensitively.

There would have been some people with that degree of tolerance and "modern" thinking but they've made sure that they are all gathered in one place!

I agree. A series about a racist doctor would be a completely different kind of drama. In fact, the daytime series The Indian Doctor covered some of that kind of problem except he was the doctor.

@SoupDragon

I think the problem with Call the Midwife is that it is meant to be light entertainment so they can't go in with full authenticity for the things that are really offensive now. It's done the same way everything else is handled sensitively.

There would have been some people with that degree of tolerance and "modern" thinking but they've made sure that they are all gathered in one place!

YY, it's the gathering it all together in one place that's the problem. Earlier on it was a patchwork of very different personalities seeing different reasons for their responses to what we'd now see as offensive, and that worked better.

So Sister Evangelina was very plausibly unshockable because she'd seen it all before and had no particular issue with getting her hands dirty, and her moral outlook mostly seemed to be based on very pragmatic Christianity. And that was very different from Trixie who thought of herself as very modern and liberated and therefore wanted to take on a 'daring' moral approach almost before she'd thought it through. And different again from Jenny who was, frankly, a bit judgy and prudish. Or indeed different from Dr Turner who earlier on came out with the word 'Mongol,' as we've said.

I am probably taking this all too seriously (it is possible I should be working ...), but I think there's something a bit dubious about deciding light entertainment should mean not touching on real offensiveness, because surely that means it's only light entertainment for anyone who hasn't been affected by any of the issues? I mean, last night presumably wouldn't feel at all 'light' if you were someone whose parents had totally rejected you as a baby because you were born with a disability? It might actually feel more hurtful that the realities are getting sugared over.

I think there's something a bit dubious about deciding light entertainment should mean not touching on real offensiveness

They have touched on it though. What they haven't done is shown it in all its gritty reality.

Fair point. Ok, what I mean is, I think they've increasingly hidden behind this idea of 'light entertainment' and interpreted it to mean 'we must make sure your average viewer isn't too uncomfortable'. Pity, because in the early seasons, although it was still perfectly nice old-fashioned entertaining TV, i t was also quietly radical in showing things that certainly did seem calculated to upset 'your average viewer,' especially your average male viewer who wasn't aware of all this female business.

I think they have always pretty much skimmed over the top of things. They haven't shied away from difficult subjects like abortion, still birth, the baby with thanldomide who was left on a windowsill by an open window... what they haven't done is gone into them in any depth and, like I said, they've gathered all the enlightened people together in one place.

I've still been horrified at the way disabled babies were treated and the attitudes towards homosexuality even though it's been somewhat sanitised.

I think what Im trying to say is that It's good at signposting the things that were normal at the time but horrendous looking back and gives people just enough to investigate further if they want to - someone linked to stuff/programmes about the forced adoptions earlier on for example.

I think it's simply the difference that the original series were based on the actual memoirs of Jennifer Worth which did include some shocking topics. And the worst ones were never put into the TV programme, or they were toned down.

When they ran out of memoirs, they said they would use real memories from other midwives/nurses from the time but perhaps these were not really forthcoming, as they seem to have gone towards "carefully researched social issues" instead which makes it feel very crafted and because they don't have real experience to go on, they probably shy away from making up any actual incidents which would be jarring to a modern audience unless they have the option to soften it by including some reference which makes us contrast to how much better it is today, or some kind of contextual explanation from Dr. Turner or whatever. And also include whatever personal storylines from each of the characters which sometimes come across as a bit odd - I found the Phyllis as circus peformer for a night one from the previous series really bizarre - I couldn't imagine she would have been comfortable wearing that outfit in front of a strange man, and Trixie's relationship with the widowed bloke comes across as very soap like in the way they keep coincidentally meeting!

It doesn't really matter, as it's all quite enjoyable and interesting to watch regardless, but they definitely have moved away from the gritty reality of the earlier series which is probably mainly because they're not re-telling a real story any more, but instead telling a fictional story which touches on some real life historical issues.

I think it could have been very interesting if they had opened some kind of permanent forum where anyone who had experience of district nursing or midwifery or childbirth from the appropriate period could have submitted their experience and then they choose interesting stories to follow up, interview the person, and retell those real stories with all the little details it's really hard to make up but which stick with people IRL.

They did a programme at the start of this series on how they got the stories now, and they did ask midwives who had worked then. That was very much a Dr Turner programme though, showing where the McGanns grew up in Liverpool in between interviewing a few midwives and historians.

Don't you also think that we live in a different time to 2010 when the series first started? I suspect it's a commissioning company stipulation now that dodgy attitudes/terminology deemed acceptable in the 1960s need to be flagged and reframed in a way acceptable to 2020s' sensibilities?

No, I don't think it's that different from 2010. There are plenty of programmes which have gritty themes, violence, crime, poverty, drugs etc. CTM feels very different to those programmes though.

Really enjoyed Sunday's episode and Reggie's back story was finally explained. I knew he wasn't Violet's son but wasn't clear how he became part of the family.

@Taswama

Really enjoyed Sunday's episode and Reggie's back story was finally explained. I knew he wasn't Violet's son but wasn't clear how he became part of the family.

He arrives in Season 6, it is very well done and I thought didn’t sugar-coat the challenges Fred and Violet faced in becoming his guardians.

This is a lovely piece about the baby from Sunday’s episode. www.radiotimes.com/tv/drama/call-the-midwife-downs-syndrome-storyline-real-baby-robert/

That article is lovely. Thanks for sharing.

That's a great article 🙂

What a lovely article, thank you. How special for Charlotte and Matt that they could experience his "birth" again, this time with joy. It's nice that they were so well cared for (even through the dousing with oil and fake blood!).
A lovely story.

That was lovely. I noticed an ad for Joules on Facebook this week where they were using an image of a little girl with Downs. I don't think she was a professional model, they were photos sent in by people, but I thought it was a good,positive thing.

One of the families I have become friends with has a little boy with down syndrome.. He's a child model and in the past has modelled Jools Oliver's childrens clothes for Mothercare! ☺ ☺

@DrCoconut

I have a 1948 health book. It was intended for use in the home to look up illnesses. Children with Down's syndrome are referred to as "Mongolian idiots" and stereotyped as "the last of a large family" and "happy people who love music." It's horrific that people thought like that so recently. Has anyone else noticed the dialogue in CTM is a bit narrative when a look how modern we are type moment comes up? Such as person A refers to old term. Person B replies oh no we mustn't say X, the correct term is now Y, it's considered more kind and progressive. Person A oh yes you're right, I expect the law will change soon so we can't say X anymore. It's such a big change for disabled people. Etc.

I recall those attitudes and terms from the 90s!!! (Not from medical people.)

I also uses to occasionally volunteer in The Spastic Society (80s) and no one thought anything wrong. But its name did last shockingly long into times when it being considered an inappropriate term.

Nate is just adorable. Lovely that his family have had that experience!

I really enjoyed the 10 year special. Can anyone tell me what season the Hebrides trip was in? I have no memory of it, although I thought I'd watched all of them.