It's a sin... [MNHQ Warning: contains spoilers]

[sandybeaches74]

Is it not the most moving tv series in a long time? I've sat here tonight wiping tears away and am not normally the overly emotional type...

@satishoused

I'm really pleased that there wasn't a romance for Jill - who was presumably straight. She was a strong enough character on her own and didn't need emotionally propped up by a man.

Why presume she is straight? She didn't seem to have any sexuality whatsoever, just existed in order to do the cleaning/shopping/emotional labour/researching/volunteering/visiting on behalf of all those men.

I thought, in the beginning when she was trying to introduce Ritchie to Ash, he claimed to be bi. She called over to Ash and said something like 'He says he's bi, so we an both have him' or words to that effect. I assumed from this she was straight but her relationships (or otherwise) weren't relevant. If RTD covered every possible angle it would have been a 25 part series not 5.

I didn’t like it very much not because of the subject, it’s an important topic, just the storyline and writing we’re a bit rubbish. I think it was quite predictable and most of the characters and storyline were one dimensional.

@BaliB1 wow. Tough crowd

@BaliB1

I didn’t like it very much not because of the subject, it’s an important topic, just the storyline and writing we’re a bit rubbish. I think it was quite predictable and most of the characters and storyline were one dimensional.

A minority view.

I don't see how it's sexism on RTD's part if that's what the real Jill actually did.

Agree about Jill. We didn't hear anything about her career ambitions either - she just gets a part in the chorus of a long-running musical and is pleased because it will pay the mortgage. Whereas Richie is always auditioning for plays, talking about the parts he wants to act, etc.

The programme was about AIDS in the gay community in the 80’s. Imo it’s ok that it focuses on the the lives on the gay men. Jill was an important character but it wasn’t her story.

I agree @Flaunch I really think people should let the men have this one

I agree with Flaunch. It wasn't Jill's story. And as the real Jill was in it, and therefore must have been able to have input of some kind, I assume she was fine with it too.

The scene between Jill and Ritchie's mum blaming each other I took as 2 broken women lashing out at someone else who loved Ritchie as much as she had. I don't think they actually meant what they said.

But she was a really big part of the story - of all the characters she was probably on screen the most. And every single thing she did was in some way subservient to the men. There was one scene where they’re all hanging out in the kitchen and she says she’ll tidy up and they all just go off and leave her to it. There was no need to have her be their skivvy as well as their nurse and ever present emotional support.

I had similar thoughts about Jill at first - she didn’t seem to exist except in relation to these men. And when I found out she was based on a real person I found it even more disappointing - surely the real Jill had a backstory?

But then reflecting on it I realised I was missing the point. It’s a wonderful story of friendship and family and the 80s and sex and all that, but it’s overwhelmingly about the horrific pandemic that took the lives of so many gay men - and the appalling prejudice, ignorance and shame that only increased the suffering. There were only 5 episodes, the focus was where it needed to be I think. It was great to show Jill, the supportive nurse and doctors, the advocate who got Colin ‘out’, the wonderful mother’s who did support their children and join in the protests and advocacy - they are interesting stories and I’d like to know more about them. But this story was mostly about the gay men who suffered and that’s fair enough. I know AIDS affected many women too, I’ve seen people saying it’s a shame the series didn’t show that - and maybe it should have, but maybe other media will now? One series can’t cover everything.

Channel 4 also cut the episodes from 8 to 5, so who knows what else might have been shown that had to be cut?

@Flaunch

The programme was about AIDS in the gay community in the 80’s. Imo it’s ok that it focuses on the the lives on the gay men. Jill was an important character but it wasn’t her story.

Gosh a much more succinct way of saying what I was trying to! Cross posted sorry.

I tried to think of it like, if there was a film about suffragettes say - there were many men who supported their cause, but I’d want the film to focus on the women.

I binge watched it, loved it !
Cried buckets when the lad from Wales died, he was so cute !

@HarrietM87

But she was a really big part of the story - of all the characters she was probably on screen the most. And every single thing she did was in some way subservient to the men. There was one scene where they’re all hanging out in the kitchen and she says she’ll tidy up and they all just go off and leave her to it. There was no need to have her be their skivvy as well as their nurse and ever present emotional support.

But she was a real person and if that's what she did that's what she did.

Just because the real Jill was in a few scenes doesn’t mean we can assume that she was able to influence the writing. Of course it’s primarily about the men but it doesn’t really add to the story to have her doing their dishes.

Well she's also a real life friend of Russell T Davies so it seems unlikely he would portray her in a way she didn't agree with.
The only time I remember her washing up was when she kept rewashing the same mug. Which was to show the fear of AIDS somehow being passed on by sharing a cup wasn't it?

@norwegianwoodpecker and @CaptainMyCaptain I know I’m really in the minority, that’s ok. I thought I’d love it from the trailers but I just couldn’t get into it.

I saw Jill as a bit like the narrator of the story.

Like she was telling the story of the men she met and knew, her backstory wasn’t important to the story she was telling. In fact too much of it would have taken away from the story.

Plus she did loads when you think of it - she looked after them, got the lawyers for Colin, bridged the divide between the two groups when Ritchie and co didn’t believe AIDS was a big issue, helped with the phone line, cared for people and befriended people in the hospital... she was central to everyone’s story

Surprised at how late it was. I had openly gay friends at University in the late 1970s.

I question the timeline. I lived as part of the gay community in the 80s. We lived in Earls Court at the height of the whole Boy George/Marilyn/Sombreros scene. Lots of rent boys, lots of people taking drugs intravenously, so two of the highest risk groups.

The first we heard of AIDS was in mid-1983. But this was in America. But then between 1984-5 it exploded in our community. We lost so many friends. It just seemed to come from nowhere. One minute we didn’t know anybody with it, the next half our friendship group was wiped out.

she looked after them, got the lawyers for Colin, bridged the divide between the two groups when Ritchie and co didn’t believe AIDS was a big issue, helped with the phone line, cared for people and befriended people in the hospital... she was central to everyone’s story

This is exactly what I find jarring. The token woman doing all the hard graft while the men are busy being fabulous. Even one scene showing Jill having her own wants and desires that didn't centre around her gay friends would have been enough for me.

I guess Jill's character does show the misogyny in gay culture but not sure it was supposed to.

I must have been watching a different programme in that I didn't see misogyny towards Jill in her character. I saw her as a strong,caring and kind woman and the dynamic between them all one of love and great friendship .Yes Ritchie lying about the mortgage and continuing to sleep with other men wasn't great.But the point is Jill loved him as a friend for all his faults
Plus he was scared and in denial hence the way he walked out of the clinic instead of getting his results. Then gave a false name.
And yes we saw her cooking and doing some chores but I didn't take offence at that.It was 5 episodes with a lot to pack in.Should we have concentrated on scenes discussing division of chores or the unfolding Aids crisis?

Absolutely agree with @Snugglepiggy.

Genuinely can’t believe people are calling a person ‘token’, really offensive towards Jill Nader.