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It's a Sin, 9 pm Channel 4, 22nd Jan CONTAINS SPOILERS **titled edited by MNHQ**

934 replies

notawittyname1954 · 21/01/2021 13:13

I keep seeing trailers for this. Anyone else looking forward to it?

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thevassal · 26/02/2021 17:51

For those saying about how Jill wasn't really a fully rounded character - I wonder whether this was a reaction by the writer (deliberate or unconscious) to all the 'gay best friends' that existed in tv and film, mainly romantic comedies, from the late 90s-early 2010s - most of the time they didn't have a developed character, and were just a gay stereotype to exist as a shorthand for a modern urban woman with a varied friendship circle, or to provide various quips or bitchy remarks, or to accompany heroine on a shopping trip without finding the need to write in another female character, etc.

At the end of the day, this is a show (originally called 'the boys') focussed on the experience of young men with Aids in the 1980s. Ritchie and Roscoe appeared to be the main characters, with Colin, Ash and Jill as secondary characters so it's not surprising we don't focus as much on them, or that we see Jill through the prism of the main character's eyes rather than a lead character in her own story, in much the same way as the 'gay best friends' are just supporting characters for all the female leads in rom coms.

It actually showed a lot more about Jill than Ash...he was only ever shown with one love interest (Richie), and one scene as a teacher. We never met his parents or saw him doing anything, having any hobbies, or interacting with anyone other than the main gang of 5, and after declaring his love for Richie we hardly saw him in the last episode.

Whereas there were multiple scenes of Jill in work (in the musical and backstage), volunteering (manning Aids phone lines and in the hospital), with her parents, doing various singing events with Richie before they got their green cards, caring for Gloria, researching AIDS, cooking, etc...

Also, having a boyfriend/girlfriend doesn't automatically equal being a fully rounded person Confused . She had strong friendships (and was friends with other actors in her musical as well as the pink palace group) great family, a good career, hobbies, volunteered, graduated from university, got a green card, was politically active, respected by many, e.g. the nurses in the hospital...but because she didn't have a boyfriend she wasn't a fully rounded character? That's a bit insulting tbh....

Botoxtime · 26/02/2021 22:26

Considering Ash loved Ritchie I thought it was odd he didnt go to the Isle of Wight but suppose if it was term time and he was a teacher he couldn't get the time off

Honeyroar · 26/02/2021 22:36

They did have a conversation about that before they went, Botoxtime.

iklboo · 27/02/2021 19:24

Interesting article

HERE

Beketaten · 28/02/2021 03:13

Finished watching the series tonight. Found it very moving, and pretty true to how things were. Except! I was really surprised that none of the characters, even in the background, were shown taking drugs, or even smoking. Obviously needles were another way people were infected, and they could have used that to introduce some different characters who were HIV+, maybe some non-gay-male cases. Drugs were pretty ubiquitous on the 80s party scene, even if they didn't go for a needles infection storyline.

I found it even more odd that the pubs, clubs, homes, staff room and house parties were all pretty much smoke free. People smoked like chimneys!

feistyoneyouare · 28/02/2021 03:21

@Botoxtime

Considering Ash loved Ritchie I thought it was odd he didnt go to the Isle of Wight but suppose if it was term time and he was a teacher he couldn't get the time off
That didn't ring true for me either. In the circumstances I don't think he'd have been calmly going to work, he'd have been beside himself. I did wonder if it had something to do with Ritchie saying they weren't boyfriends, but that doesn't ring true either because they were such close friends before there was any more to it. I just feel Ash would have been there no matter what, like the other two.

Astonishing series though. It blew me away, in fact I've started watching it again now from the beginning.

DanielODonkey · 28/02/2021 09:18

@thevassal it's not That Jill needed a partner to round her out, it's more that she (and other characters too) must have been more than just pink palace plus protests.

I understand the show was about a particular group of people and one point in time and that did work well, I just think Russel T Davies has a habit of using broad brush strokes to describe his characters and unless the actor has the chance to out in more detail or has the skill to out in more detail, it's left with a feeling that they are just not realistic.

thevassal · 28/02/2021 17:37

[quote DanielODonkey]@thevassal it's not That Jill needed a partner to round her out, it's more that she (and other characters too) must have been more than just pink palace plus protests.

I understand the show was about a particular group of people and one point in time and that did work well, I just think Russel T Davies has a habit of using broad brush strokes to describe his characters and unless the actor has the chance to out in more detail or has the skill to out in more detail, it's left with a feeling that they are just not realistic.[/quote]
But she was more than that...she had friends outside the pink palace (other than colin was the only one shown with other friends), family, a career and volunteered in her spare time.

Although I read the article ikboo linked to earlier about what additional stories they have liked to do if they had more episodes and it seems as though RTD wanted her to be presented as her activism almost taking over to the expense of having her own life, so perhaps it was a deliberate choice rather than poor writing? It also expanded on the comment valerie makes regarding her father being a "very bad man" or words to that effect...

MercyBooth · 28/02/2021 17:51

They should have given RTD the eight episodes.

Pemba · 28/02/2021 17:56

Yes, now the show has been so well received and such a talking point, in the USA as well, I bet Channel 4 are kicking themselves!

SimonJT · 28/02/2021 17:59

@MercyBooth

They should have given RTD the eight episodes.
Yep, bet they’re kicking themselves.
SydneyCarton · 01/03/2021 08:57

I did laugh at the bit where Ash is ranting about having to go through the school library because of section 28 and then:

“So what did you really say?”

“Um, there’s a couple of Mary Renaults.....” Grin

Spidey66 · 01/03/2021 23:25

I binge watched it at the weekend and loved it. By the end I felt like they were all my mates (except for Ritchie’s mum, who was a bitch but was still realistic).

I grew up in the era it was set, so I knew a fair amount about the subject, but it was good to see the era from the perspective of those affected, and I still learnt from it....like the bit when Colin was detained under the Public Health Act. I didn’t know that could happen.

I think it was kind of timely showing it during the pandemic. On hindsight it seemed people with HIV/AIDS were treated appallingly, eg Colin being detained,but on hindsight like with Covid they didn’t really know what they were dealing with.

Oh and I loved the music. And Colins mum.

It had been bugging me all weekend who Gregory/Gloria’s dad was till I found out he’d been Billy Elliot’s dad!

WinterHoliday · 02/03/2021 13:00

I was thinking that the actor playing Gloria's dad has barely aged since his Billy Elliot days!

Spidey66 · 02/03/2021 15:20

No, he looked really well considering BE was about 20 odd years ago!

iklboo · 02/03/2021 16:56

I think he's always looked the same. Maybe he looked old when he was young and now it's vice versa. Grin

RandomDent · 02/03/2021 17:52

@MercyBooth

They should have given RTD the eight episodes.
I did a Core4 survey on it’s a sin last night. Under any other comments, I wrote that they should have given RTD more than five episodes.
23PissOffAvenueWF · 02/03/2021 20:52

Absolutely loved this. Binged watched it, and then binged watched it again. Have watched the first episode for a third time, and still picking up on things I missed.

Reading all I can get my hands on, and came on here to see if there was a thread - not disappointed - thank you @notawittyname1954!

People can dislike certain characters and/or their behaviour (Ritchie sleeping with people when he knew he was infected, Valerie at the end), but all RTD is doing is holding a mirror up to the period and showing us what actually happened.

The Valerie storyline is based on real events, according to RTD and Jill, that I’m sure happened all the time. Parents turning up at a hospital, and in the space of 5 minutes, finding out their son a). is gay, b). has AIDS and c). is dying.

She freaked out. She needed someone to blame, and she couldn’t bring herself to blame her beloved son.

And what did she do in the end? She let him die alone, thinking his best friends had forgotten about him and had moved on, for her own selfish ends. This sort of thing would not have been unusual.

My DM was born in the 30s and died before my DB came out. I don’t think she suspected at all - he was 30 by the time he came out, and very much a Colin figure. Clearly Ritchie is a very different kettle of fish and it’s hard to imagine not at least suspecting. But Ritchie went to great lengths to keep it from both of them (shame) and it was a different era, albeit to very recent.

There’s a whole conversation about Ritchie and Donald. Ritchie doesn’t know for sure who gave it to whom, and Jill says the only reason Ritchie suspects it might be Donald (legion on his back aside) is because his is the only name R remembers.

Roscoe. Loved him. That brittle, show-boating, don’t-give-a-fuck facade, belying a gentle, vulnerable interior.

Gloria’s baby photos being burnt - heart-breaking. Ritchie’s dance, and his kind friend Martin.

Poor Colin - sacked for getting the papers Jill asked him to get, just so they could all learn and understand more. And then what happened to him.

Henry and Juan Pablo - NPH said in the Graham Norton interview that their role was to depict a monogamous relationship, so I also have a question mark over how they contracted it, given they’d been together for 30 years. How Henry tried to downplay JP’s illness (three-act play), but inside he’d must have been terrified. And then separated from him at the end, his husband, to all intents and purposes.

‘Going home’. Gosh that whole concept was gutting. And most of them going home to places they’d escaped from, that didn’t accept them. They had to spend their dying days away from their loved ones, their ‘chosen’ families.

And last but not least, ‘I pissed. In Mrs Thatcher’s coffee. Black man’s piss’. 🖤

Won’t forget this for a long, long time.

notawittyname1954 · 03/03/2021 10:19

@23PissOffAvenueWF

Absolutely loved this. Binged watched it, and then binged watched it again. Have watched the first episode for a third time, and still picking up on things I missed.

Reading all I can get my hands on, and came on here to see if there was a thread - not disappointed - thank you @notawittyname1954!

People can dislike certain characters and/or their behaviour (Ritchie sleeping with people when he knew he was infected, Valerie at the end), but all RTD is doing is holding a mirror up to the period and showing us what actually happened.

The Valerie storyline is based on real events, according to RTD and Jill, that I’m sure happened all the time. Parents turning up at a hospital, and in the space of 5 minutes, finding out their son a). is gay, b). has AIDS and c). is dying.

She freaked out. She needed someone to blame, and she couldn’t bring herself to blame her beloved son.

And what did she do in the end? She let him die alone, thinking his best friends had forgotten about him and had moved on, for her own selfish ends. This sort of thing would not have been unusual.

My DM was born in the 30s and died before my DB came out. I don’t think she suspected at all - he was 30 by the time he came out, and very much a Colin figure. Clearly Ritchie is a very different kettle of fish and it’s hard to imagine not at least suspecting. But Ritchie went to great lengths to keep it from both of them (shame) and it was a different era, albeit to very recent.

There’s a whole conversation about Ritchie and Donald. Ritchie doesn’t know for sure who gave it to whom, and Jill says the only reason Ritchie suspects it might be Donald (legion on his back aside) is because his is the only name R remembers.

Roscoe. Loved him. That brittle, show-boating, don’t-give-a-fuck facade, belying a gentle, vulnerable interior.

Gloria’s baby photos being burnt - heart-breaking. Ritchie’s dance, and his kind friend Martin.

Poor Colin - sacked for getting the papers Jill asked him to get, just so they could all learn and understand more. And then what happened to him.

Henry and Juan Pablo - NPH said in the Graham Norton interview that their role was to depict a monogamous relationship, so I also have a question mark over how they contracted it, given they’d been together for 30 years. How Henry tried to downplay JP’s illness (three-act play), but inside he’d must have been terrified. And then separated from him at the end, his husband, to all intents and purposes.

‘Going home’. Gosh that whole concept was gutting. And most of them going home to places they’d escaped from, that didn’t accept them. They had to spend their dying days away from their loved ones, their ‘chosen’ families.

And last but not least, ‘I pissed. In Mrs Thatcher’s coffee. Black man’s piss’. 🖤

Won’t forget this for a long, long time.

@23PissOffAvenueWF

I love your name. That was such a wonderful dramatic exit from the family home. I think people will be La! ing and using London W Fuck for a long time.
I have read The Great Believers by Rebecca Makkai which Olly said he used as a source material.
Also All the Young Men by Ruth Coker Burks, who was very much a Jill
Also just started How to survive a Plague by David France
and have Christodora by Tim Murphy to read
and Dancer from the Dance by Andrew Holleran, which Olly also has mentioned
The films I have had recommended are Holding the Man on Netflix
Don't ever wipe tears without gloves on Amazon Prime
and the Horizon documentary www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01z2lbp/horizon-19821983-killer-in-the-village
What an unforgettable series It's a sin is

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notawittyname1954 · 03/03/2021 10:20

I also heard yesterday that It's a sin has already won an award and so have Olly and Keeley. So that is wonderful.

OP posts:
shanks313 · 03/03/2021 11:48

Not sure if it’s already been mentioned but a brilliant film about AIDS is The Normal Heart ..it win several awards

notawittyname1954 · 03/03/2021 11:57

@shanks313

Thank you. I think it has but you've reminded me.

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beguilingeyes · 03/03/2021 13:38

This may already have been mentioned but there's a La. t-shirt which has all the proceeds going to the Terrance Higgins Trust. I bought the white one, but I wish I'd got one of the pink ones

philipnormal.shop/products/la-t-shirt

notawittyname1954 · 03/03/2021 15:08

@beguilingeyes I bought a white one too. The pink have just come back into stock I think. They've raised a huge amount from these t shirts.
Also Years and Years version of its a sin is giving some of the proceeds to the George House Trust. And its a great cover

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iklboo · 03/03/2021 16:34

Wow. That's a fairly decent chunk of the price going to THT. Amazing.