Does *anyone* think Claire Verity's methods are kind of OK and we are hugely overreacting?

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

Probablt repeating what everyone else has said but -

I was telling Dh about the programme ear;ier and he said "say for example you were at a friends house and their newborn was crying constantly but teh parents said "ohhh, I can't be bothered..just leave him to cry. I wantto watch this footie/this film/drink my wine/sit on my useless fucking arse(ok I just added that one)" why is that any differnt to this stupid bint??

That example from Dh would have me phoneing social services but Shes allwed to do this....parents welcome her into their home to do this.

I honestly, hand on my heart cannot work out how ANYONE can follow this womans method. IMO it makes them pretty crap parents.

totally agree madamez - when ds was tiny i always used to make sure we got out at least once a day (but that was cause i was so scared of him waking up i would walk for hours and hours with him!)

fresh air and Vit D (from sunlight) does babies no harm at all imo. i don't think anyone's really condoning CV's methods at all, are they?

You know that NSPCC ad when they say 'Miles is a quiet baby, he ahs learned that nobody comes even if he cry'- ?

Quite

Peachy, yes indeed, that was one of my thoughts. I love routines, and with four under 7, routine has saved my sanity before now, but that's not routine, that's child abuse.

i absolutely agree with the opinions against cv, but i do wish people would stop it withy the 'she's not had a child of her own'
do all the nursery nurses who care for your children have kids of their own? childless people care for children just as much - my friend has adopted children and is brilliant.
cv is crap because she's stupid, not because she's childless. my 2yr old dd knows babies need cuddles!

NO!!!!!!!!!!

I agree that nursery nurses often don't have kids- my sis is a fab Nursery manager and worked her way up from NNEB aged 16, but only recently (well, 3 years but after a decade in the profession) ahd a child. The odd comment of 'well have you got any chidlren' (from staff, not aprents) is replaced now by 'well you only have 1' of course ( she can't have any more, Ob Gyn orders- this pg damanged her organs too abdly- eclampsia). She's a fab Nursery nurse though, one of the best- she's nto my best mate but I ws happy to send ds1 there for a while.

CV is a different kettle of fish altogether.

Message withdrawn

cheekylittlemadam is either stupid or having a larf.

No I don't think we're overreacting. People like CV are nutters and it is an outrage that a TV programme is allowed to broadcast stuff like this as if it were valid. It's as bad as them having a bunch of scientists having a serious debate about the origins of the universe, with one of the scientists being a creationist and presenting it as if it is as valid as versions of Darwinism. Channel 4 would never do that, because when it comes ot anything but bringing up the human race, they stick to generally accepted, evidence-based theory. It pisses me off that child-rearing is treated in such a frivolous manner.

And OK a couple of generations were brought up like this, but they had higher rates of SIDS and they gave birth to the hippies. So not really a good advertisement imo.

I too had a routine btw, pretty much from the start, but not a mental one.

Agree that not having children does not automatically make a nursery nurse's opinions worthless. Gina Ford has said criticism of that nature is hurtful because she couldn't have children. Not that I'm a fan of hers, but valid point.

But there is an issue with CV; she finds it easier to detach herself from a child, and ignore its cries, precisely because she is not the mother. Or even a mother.

I think if you are a childless chilcare guru, you have to respect the emotional attachment of mothers and babies. And accept that it is important, necessary, and right for mothers to care deeply for their babies. That means you don't stand in the way of a mother going to comfort her baby.

Quite right Edam

Nothing wrong with being childless; everything wrong with refusing to acknowledge the reality of the bond between mother and child and pretending it doesn't exist /matter/ is the mother being sentimental/ pathetic/ silly or the baby being selfish/ greedy/ manipulative.

I get sicker and sicker of these nutters, mainly because there seem to be more of them and their ideas are being enthusiastically taken up by the twats who run TV and newspapers and being presented as valid. And why? What motive do these people have for promoting child neglect? I'd love to know.

Because it's a cycle they need. If you keep parents in a jumble of uncertainty about the best way of doing things, then you're much more likely to be able to sell magazines/books/telly programs. It's all just marketing.

Do Truby King babies take longer to smile I wonder?

i was on my own with my 2yo, 1yo and newborn sons one day... and at bedtime i was a bit frazzled trying to get the older 2 bathed and keep the younger one happy... i had fed him but he didnt want to settle and id counted on him going down and being ok, for me to sort out the other 2 in the bath...

i had them both in there when he decided this plan was not to his liking... so in the end, i sort of swaddled him a bit and put him in the crib in my room while i finished the boys off in the bath, pj'd and storied them and got them off to sleep.

he cried and cried while i did this, which flustered me coz i dont like them being sad or upset , but this seemed like a neccessity. eventually he stopped, pretty much as i was closing the door on the other two...

i breathed a suge sigh of relief and unclenched... thought 'finally a little peace' and started to go downstairs... but something stopped me and i went to check.

he had gotten himself tangled in the blankets and they were wrapped tightly around his head and face... when i unwrapped him, his lips were blue and his skin kind of greyish. took him what felt like forever to get his breath to cry again.

was truly and singularly the most horror-filled moment of my life and i'll never forget it.

if i had followed CV's 'let them cry' advice, hed have died.

NP, that's so scary. (((you)))

OMG poor you. I have goose bumps. That is precisely my point on listening to your instincts. And this is exactly why that woman makes my skin crawl and my blood boil. So glad your story had a happy ending.

Oh Nappy, that must have been bloody terrifying. Thank heavens you checked. And you are right, that is the most urgent reason why CV et al are so bloody dangerous.

"I think if you are a childless chilcare guru, you have to respect the emotional attachment of mothers and babies. And accept that it is important, necessary, and right for mothers to care deeply for their babies. That means you don't stand in the way of a mother going to comfort her baby."

edam

Message withdrawn

thanks peeps.

i go cold just thinking about that moment of hesitation on the steps... i so nearly just went downstairs and watched some crap telly.

a parents instinct is NOT something to be fcked about with.

the blanket was a beautiful hand made for me crocheted white wool blankey which i adore too.

i have not been able to bring myself to even look at it since.

SweetKitty can I say I had a baby in the 70's as did most of my friends, none were weaned at 6 weeks, yes most were at 12/18 weeks which was the norm at that time. Most I knew were bottle fed, but not with rusks in the bottle, and most baby food was home made.

And we did have car seats, great big black leatherette things that had to be fixed by a garage to the sub frame of the car!

Yes children were put out in the garden to sleep In warm weather, covered in a cat net, and swadled.

I followed a relaxed routine, fed approx every 2 then 3 and eventually 4 hours as told by my HV, and my sn has turned out healthuy and relativly normal for a rugby player

oh mp. have got cold going down spine reading that. poor poor them, you, baby...