White House Farm - The Bamber Murders. Jan 8th ITV 9pm

[Dogleg]

Is anyone else planning to watch this six part series? I vaguely remembered the killings and on seeing this advertised have now lost hours to reading up about it online and have also downloaded a book about the case. I’m really looking forward to this one!

www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-25/itv-drama-white-house-farm/

Emijem- sorry! I was more surprised at the group chat thinking it was actual footage.

But I liked that he found out and she wasn't portrayed as some saviour of the case.

I'm sorry if this is a tad crude but were Nevill's trousers down at his ankles? Is it thought he stumbled over the back of the chair in the struggle? He's in a very odd position and it almost looks staged.

Yes I did like that @Noeuf. I don’t know what I will do on my Wednesday’s now.

@HorseFlyOfExtraordinaryLength I was wondering that too, I couldn’t work out what was happening

The actor who played Jeremy Bamber was so very good, absolutely convincing portraying him as an arrogant young person with little conscience.

For all that I do not see how the jury found him guilty.

Horse yy Nevill's trousers fell down.

He was found guilty (and this has been upheld several time’s) because the circumstantial evidence was so strong.

JM’s testimony was described as “compelling” and multiple people had heard him say he hated his family, wished them dead and even that he “would have no problem” shooting his parents.

Coupled with the story he set up about Neville calling him when it’s now known Neville could not have spoken after his initial injuries and you have to start asking questions about why he lied.

He’s a psychopath pure and simple. The defence found that out to their cost when he was seen by a psychiatrist before the trial. I think they were hoping for a “normal young man” response. They had to do some quick thinking once the results came back.

I can't find anything about that. Do you have a link please?

According to this article:

Author Carol Anne Lee who interviewed Bamber reveals in her book that from the outset of his arrest he refused to allow police access to his medical records pre-trial and did not want to be assessed, while a psychiatrist engaged by his defence declared that he displayed several classic psychopathic symptoms. Chief among these symptoms was his genuine belief in his own innocence. ‘The psychiatrist believed that Jeremy did kill his family but had suppressed the memory until it was no longer real’.

I was quite taken with the Brett Collins comments about their holiday prior to JB’s arrest.

He says that they had a great time in St Tropez and JB was splashing the cash and sleeping with multiple women.

JB has come out and said “it was a caravan holiday and we on,y paid £80 for the caravan.”

So it seems yet ANOTHER person is lying ...poor Jeremy, surrounded by liars who were formerly friends. Or perhaps these are multiple people all telling the truth about what they witnessed before and after the murders. If they are all lying then that’s one hell of a conspiracy.

I live a few miles away from White House Farm. My neighbour knows people who knew the family. They have always been 100% convinced that Bamber is guilty....

NRTFT.

It’s the whole nature/nurture debate. Take for example the fact their adopted daughter Shelia was a diagnosed schizophrenic; theory states:- ‘Childhood trauma, and bereavement or separation in families, have been found to be risk factors for schizophrenia and psychosis. Specific social experiences have been linked to specific psychological mechanisms and psychotic experiences in schizophrenia.’

So one could conclude that Jeremy could also have been adversely affected by the family dynamics to the point that he was so emotionally detached he committed murder. He was only interested in meeting his own needs and had no empathy for others. He was clearly not securely attached to either of his adoptive parents. Not an excuse, just a way of framing it. He is clearly now believing his own lies as he keeps trying to appeal his sentence.

In a nutshell nature loaded the gun and the environment pulled the trigger.

@busted I agree. I'm at the end of Colin's book & he looks at the whole case from the aspect of the trauma everyone in that family had endured & how it shaped their personality/behaviour.

Just a quick placemark.

I can see how JM would have given the interview. She was I’m certain hounded by the press to the point where she’d had enough. Disappointed that she did but I can see how it happened.

I think nowadays, had Jeremy allowed himself to be assessed by the court shrink, there would have been consideration given to the appalling circs of his birth, being given away, and then being placed with parents who neither child could bond with.

Sheila's psych said she couldn't have killed anyone except Mrs Bamber, who she had a strong motive for finishing off.

Yet both children were told to shut up and be grateful because the Bambers were millionaires with a big garden.

What appalling circumstances re: his birth? I think in the early 60s it wasn't unusual to be adopted out if born to unmarried parents. I know (from direct experience of adopting dd) that it's not a walk in the park but he was six weeks or so I think? And not unwell/bonded to his bio parents?

But their lives weren't only impacted by their birth parents and the Bambers. Something seems to have happened to Sheila on her modelling trip overseas and doesn't JB's team now say he was sexually abused (not by the Bambers).
Yet even with those circumstances (which sadly weren't unusual for adopted children) it's almost unprecedented for a family annihilation of that extent ie including two DCs in their extended family.
I think it's why we struggle to put it together tbh We think we can't grasp what happened because there's questions about JM or the silencer, etc. Really, I think we struggle with processing that a young man coldly and deliberately ended his family's lives in such a violent manner with no big trigger that night and with no tearful, remorseful confession.

What appalling circumstances re: his birth? I think in the early 60s it wasn't unusual to be adopted out if born to unmarried parents. I know (from direct experience of adopting dd) that it's not a walk in the park but he was six weeks or so I think? And not unwell/bonded to his bio parents?

But it wasn’t that straightforward was it? After he had been adopted his birth parents went on to marry each other and have further children. I think that must be incredibly hurtful and damaging.

Just a quick placemark

Why not just use the bookmark facility or the thread just fills up with nonsense?

Right, so not the actual birth. I thought maybe there was something I'd missed beyond that. Six months, not six weeks though.
When did he find out about his parents? Wiki says it was only after his conviction they were told that Bamber was their son.

@DuckWillow I can't imagine he'd have gone to St Tropez and stayed in a caravan!!

There are camping/caravan sites in St Tropez! Why wouldn't someone (especially in their early 20s) stay in cheap accommodation and then be seen to splash the cash on cocktails round the pool? I don't see why either Brett or Jeremy needs to be lying on that one.

Noeuf yy I thought the same as you and I was confused.
If the crime happened now, they'd be asking what music he listened to, what games he played, what movies he watched.

In the FB group I just found in the tv show people are commenting that the policeman's face when he found she had journalists there showed he realised she'd made it up.
I thought his face showed disappointment in her for selling her story to the papers.

The whole lot of them seemed money mad. Such a strange bunch of people.

JB’s supporters on facebook are really grasping at straws aren’t they? I don’t even think that scene actually happened irl.
You’d be disappointed at her selling her story, of course you would. Doesn’t mean she made the whole thing up!