anyone watching Harry and Megan

[Member869894]

on tv now?

Hippo, those comments are of course racist. No one would argue otherwise. However they certainly have not been a common theme as you well know. Just because there has been racist comments does not mean all criticism is racist based. That is why this is such a contentious issue, those of us who think Harry and Meghan are at fault are accused of dog whistle racism. That is simply not true and it's rather tedious tbh.

@joyfullittlehippo a quick google and I found it. Wow.

'She didn't give a fig about how difficult the tabloid press are to deal with in regards to her father. He was left hung out to dry and handle it all himself with no PR help, then not forgiven for making blunders and falling foul.'
Yes, how fair has the scrutiny of him being. Unflattering pictures and comments in the papers about 'alleged' surgical procedures.

That she was too confident, should know her place, is just generally “uppity” is all dog whistle racism.

Oh do fuck off with this, Bert. She should know her place, she's not her husband's equal in royal terms. It has nothing to do with race.

I don't think for a second theirs is an equal relationship on any level. He looks like he's being towed around on a lead half the time.

those of us who think Harry and Meghan are at fault are accused of dog whistle racism.

It depends on the comment. Those that refer to her "background" "lack of suitability", etc. are often dog whistles. Comments about her behavior may or may not be. Also the vehemence with which some people comment about relatively trivial matters often reveals a racist attitude.

In addition, many people have internalized racism of which they are entirely unaware. It's picked up from the ambient culture of racism that sadly seems more prevalent in the US and in the UK these days.

I actually agree with Cat - she should know her place. She’s only Royal because she married in. If anything went wrong with the marriage she’d be cast adrift, same as Diana & Fergie.

But Meghan’s background (&Harry’s failure to explain) like it or not has led to some lack of understanding how things work.

It would be the same if I married a high profile male in another country - I’d have to learn all the nuances & customs. That’s not racist though but cultural IMO.

“My mission in life is not merely to survive, but to thrive; and to do so with some passion, some compassion, some humor, and some style”

― Maya Angelou

She should know her place, she's not her husband's equal in royal terms.

Actually she is his equal as she takes her royal status from him, which is really a bit sexist since men cannot take royal status in the UK by marrying a royal.

In addition, many people have internalized racism of which they are entirely unaware.

Which may be true, but certainly isn't of everyone.

I was one of the many people who was delighted at the arrival of a royal with a racially diverse background. I thought she would be such an asset on the world stage.

I no longer think this.

I don't propose to go into a character assassination on a public forum but I could give you a long list of the things that have contributed to where I am on these two. Race wouldn't anywhere near.

The problem is in my opinion it is just such a weird 'place'. I mean, she is expected to be respected and curtseyed too purely because she married a man who was born a prince. The whole thing is just ridiculous.

I think unfortunately for Meghan she married into a family that was on the brink of major changes in the way they are perceived/valued by the general public.

In times of austerity seeing any member of the RF travelling by private jet etc just doesn't sit well.

Up until now I've been critical but willing for them to turn things around. But this documentary just proves my suspicions about her huge levels of self-preoccupation

This is more or less my own view, Catherine, and FWIW I still hope they'll turn it around, which is why I've said I'm glad they're taking a break and hope they'll use it well

To do that, though, they'll need to use a lot of introspection and be willing to accept advice, and right now I'm not sure the ability to do it is there. Time will tell ...

To do that, though, they'll need to use a lot of introspection and be willing to accept advice, and right now I'm not sure the ability to do it is there.

I agree that the break will do them good.

Not actually sure it's possible to avoid more drama, since with the ongoing the litigation against the press there's more controversy to come. I don't see that the MoS have a leg to stand on regarding the printed letter, however I think they made it clear that they were not going to make it easy with admission of guilt, a retraction and a private settlement.

'In addition, many people have internalized racism of which they are entirely unaware'
I find these attitudes incredibly patronising. I know I'm not racist, I live in a multicultural community and have family and friends from diverse backgrounds.
It's as if the only defence people have is she has a black parent so therefore any criticism is because of that, it isn't.

It is because both her and Harry want adulation but don't want criticism, it doesn't work like that.

'He looks like he's being towed around on a lead half the time.'

Yes it was bizarre to see in the documentary, it doesn't seem an equal partnership at all. Harry looks like a rabbit in the headlights.

“ We don't expect much. Turn up. Smile. Shake hands. Pose for a few pictures. then piss off back home.”
Which bit of this do M&H not do?

@BertrandRussell they didn't just do the royally wavy bit. They used the engagement/tour to air their own grievances. That's the difference.

Catherine I've absolutely no idea of the legalities, but wasn't there some suggestion that contents of the letter have been divulged in America by Meghan's friends?

I'm just wondering how suing a British paper for publishing it would work, if it was already in the public sphere ... but you're certainly right that there'll be yet more drama over this

Actually she is his equal as she takes her royal status from him, which is really a bit sexist since men cannot take royal status in the UK by marrying a royal.

I bow to your greater knowledge, @SenecaFalls, but even with that being the case, he is a born royal, she isn't. When they attend things together, he's the main event. It is "uppity" as Bert puts it, to step in front of him for the handshake, and to interrupt him speaking, as I've seen her doing.

Of course not all the criticism is racist! But it is absurd to say than none of it is.
And the particular intensity with which she is criticised for things which are perfectly normal behaviour for rich/privileged/royal people is very odd. As is the dismissal of the charity stuff she does- the constant accusations of only doing it to “push herself forward”. Think of rhe writing on bananas thing. The charity concerned thought it was OK. Even if it wasn’t, it was a pretty trivial thing. But it was all over the papers, all over Mumsnet, with a completely unrelated photograph which made it look a million times worse than it was. The completely untrue Wimbledon story keeps on coming up. The engagement dress bought before she was even getting any royal money. The Balmoral visit- when Harry never goes. The cars to South Africa - when it was a security issue. The list goes on. And even in the documentary-there was an hour of stuff about the tour and the charity work. And about 3 minutes about the way the press has treated her.People are behaving as it it was 50 minutes of whining.

The point is there was any whining and the inappropriateness thereof. But do continue bending around in circles trying to prove that there's no reason for any criticism at all.

Of course not all the criticism is racist! But it is absurd to say than none of it is.

Where has anyone said none of it is?

even in the documentary-there was an hour of stuff about the tour and the charity work. And about 3 minutes about the way the press has treated her.People are behaving as it it was 50 minutes of whining.

Watch again. There was plenty of additional commentary from TB as well as the interviews themselves. The overriding theme of the documentary seemed to be how hard things were for them, not the work of the charities fleetingly shown.

They have received a lot of attention because Harry is high profile. Right from the start whoever he was with was going to be scrutinised excessively. They shouldve been ready for this, for starters they should've visited her dad and prepped him before that saga could kick off.

Life isn't fair sadly, they shouldve known how to play this better. Even the documentary could've been worded better, we all know we like to back the underdog, if they'd just show a bit of humility and regret the public just might get behind them. Sadly it's a soap opera that going to run and run with them playing perpetual victims.

“ But do continue bending around in circles trying to prove that there's no reason for any criticism at all.”

See, I think if somebody- whoever they are, has been treated as appallingly by the media as she has, I don’t see why she shouldn’t say so. She just stated facts. It was a judgement call whether to say anything or not. I’m not sure whether she was right or wrong in term of her profile in the future, but I see no reason why she shouldn’t have said it. She wasn’t saying she shouldn’t be criticised at all.

She has been treated appallingly by the media. In any other life she should be able to say so. The problem is it's so unwise in her particular circumstances. And although she says she accepts fair criticism, I'm not sure that is the case. I'd like to have seen some evidence of her acknowledging legitimate criticism and addressing it.

“ And although she says she accepts fair criticism, I'm not sure that is the case.”
Fair enough. I don’t do psychic. What would you have liked her to say?