GoT is actually disgusting, isn't it?

[Miljah]

In what way can it be described as 'entertainment'?

I seriously, don't understand why people happily sit down to watch the carnage, the immolation, the screaming children.

What is wrong with people?

I was a complete an utter mess after watching The Green Mile- I sobbed and screamed and couldn’t get myself together through most of the film.

I have never watched it since, was it because I hated it no, did I think it was amazing- yes!

It showed racism, death row, realism, a condemned guilty man finding joy with a mouse- did I have compassion for this man, yes I did and he was guilty! Let alone the non guilty man!

Sometimes seeing what you fear is what’s needed! It reminds you of humanity and it’s depravity to grow and be better.

Tbh if want to live in a governed state I hear North Korea are taking applicants!

It’s healthy to be reminded the world isn’t perfect and back in the day was even worse.

Shows how far society has come, the moment it’s sensored or people don’t react to it will be when I worry!

“I skip through the gory parts”

Why?

I also skip through bits in other films/tv series that I find boring doesn't impact on the enjoyment of it as a whole

“I also skip through bits in other films/tv series that I find boring doesn't impact on the enjoyment of it as a whole”

But isn’t the argument that the extreme violence is absolutely integral to the show, and it wouldn’t work without it?

Yes the violence is integral to the story telling and there are a couple of scenes I close my eyes to, that's a couple of scenes of a few minutes each out of approximately 70 hours of the entirety of the show.

What is upsetting about the violence in GoT is that it is done to characters who have been fleshed out, who are believable human beings for whom you have empathy. It is not supposed to be a cheap thrill to watch them suffer, it is not something you can become desensitised to - precisely because of the character development. It is nothing like the violence for cheap thrills of a horror movie where you want to enjoy being made to jump and your own imagination is better than the reality (which would not be enjoyable at all if you thought about it too much). It is nothing like watching the beheading of a real stranger you have been brainwashed to believe deserves to die. It is shocking because you have been given insight into that character and have seen their humanity, not been allowed to objectify them. Instead you watch on, shocked at the ability of other characters to objectify them or loathe them so much, or be so blinded and corrupted by personal ambition, that they are capable of behaving as they are. It's all part of the story, not an unnecessary extra for cheap kicks.

Pretending that bad things don't happen and removing them from film/tv imho is more damaging and de-sensitising.

In GOT the violence is awful. That's the point.

It makes you question the means vs the end.

Ultimately, the "message" is that war is brutal and rarely achieves the end results those who wage it anticipate.

I also skip the unpleasant parts of films when rewatching (e.g. THAT flashback in The Usual Suspects, or the woman Russell Crowe finds in LA Confidential). My husband also warns me if something bad is going to happen to a doggy or a child if he has seen it before. It's enough to know it happened. My brain doesn't need the visuals.

But isn’t the argument that the extreme violence is absolutely integral to the show, and it wouldn’t work without it

That's a bit facetious, if people want to shut their eyes or look away at certain points that's their choice but it quite different to the alternative which is what? Large chunks of text to say "then a battle happened and so and so got killed by a sword etc"

you never see a knife entering flesh, you never see a breast even though Janet Leigh's character is obviously naked in the shower. Are you saying the horror isn't convincing - or what

No, Psycho is not scary. The exorcist, yes, not psycho.

I’m so glad this has developed into a really interesting discussion and the smug sneering of ‘GoT fans are disgusting!’ ‘Don’t they get so angry when you call them disgusting ’ has finally stopped, the goody OP has fucked off altogether and instead people are actually engaging. Walkaround and DeRigeur have said everything, I think.

Ultimately, the "message" is that war is brutal and rarely achieves the end results those who wage it anticipate. I don't think you need to watch GOT to know that. It's not a public information service.

“Don’t they get so angry when you call them disgusting grin’”
Well, anyone would get angry if called disgusting. What puzzles me is why they get so angry when anyone suggests that there is too much gratuitous violence- and particularly sexual violence- in the programme.

“No, Psycho is not scary. The exorcist, yes, not psycho”

That’s interesting. I think it’s very much the other way round. Triggering the audience ‘s imagination is so much more difficult and creates better scares than special effects, in my opinion.

Don't mind the war and violence- not my taste but , meh. However gratuitous sex and even rape is really not to my taste.
But other people seem ok with it .

What puzzles me is why they get so angry when anyone suggests that there is too much gratuitous violence

I don’t think anyone’s getting angry at that, though they might disagree.

What angers people is being told they’re disgusting, others wouldn’t want to sit next to them on the bus, that the show is ‘basically porn’ and that the only reason you’d watch is because you get off on the violence.

Personally I get frustrated when people have big opinions on a book/show they haven’t watched/read, but that’s just me.

I've unfortunately, like most people I've seen more violence and gore on tv than i ever really wanted to. But few have captured the fear and the futility quite like GoT.

That scene with the Hound and the Mountain - I was screaming at the screen. And it expressed the helplessness of civilians perfectly. Daenerys and her dragon were essentially demonstrating what western forces have been doing to the middle east and countless other regions for a very long time. We're sold the lie of targetted attacks on enemy bases, and what we get all too often is indiscriminate slaughter. But that's ok because like Daenerys, our leaders don't count dead foreigners.

That’s interesting. I think it’s very much the other way round. Triggering the audience ‘s imagination is so much more difficult and creates better scares than special effects, in my opinion.

I actually agree, but that's an artistic judgement not a moral one. If you want to argue that GoT would be a better watch if it left more to the imagination then fine, it's arguing that there is something morally wrong with making the opposite artistic choice, and with anyone that chooses to watch it, that has got people's backs up.

Bertrand, the anger which you found so hilarious was provoked not by the suggestion that there is too much violence in GoT but by the OP’s ridiculous assertions that the fans of the show are in some way so depraved she was supposedly distressed to have to ‘walk among us’ in society. I’m perfectly happy to discuss whether or not the violence, nudity and sexual content is gratuitous or justified and to what extent this can be the case; how it differs from pornography, where the line can be drawn and why - I tried to discuss that way back. What really irritated me was the ill-informed jeering that was coming back. I’d say throughout the thread there has been a lot of reasoned, measured and intelligent responses in defence of GoT and the criticisms of it haven’t been particularly robust and seem to have depended on sneering and emojis rather than actual argument.

And bellini, of course we aren’t ‘ok’ with rape! It’s horrifying, senseless, shocking and painful to watch. Rape scenes are not ‘to my taste’. It doesn’t mean that I think it is never justified to have them in a show, film or book. It can be done in an abhorrent and indefensible way, of course, but there hasn’t been a rape scene on GoT that I can think has been put there to glorify rape, titillate viewers or to add gratuitous and unnecessary shock factor. I’ve never enjoyed watching one, but that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be in the show at all.

I don't mind a bit of gore, but I just cannot watch graphic depictions of sexual violence on screen. No matter how amazing the story is, it just sickens me. Honestly I don't understand how people can stomach it. I watched 5 minutes of Vikings and unfortunately I saw a nun being viciously raped. I also hate unnecessary nude scenes and women being portrayed as sexual playthings. I know women were (and still are) abused and raped but I don't want to see it, albeit a fictional version. I love the walking dead (or used to when it was good) because of this very reason, sexual violence just isn't a thing in it. I know that showing women being used and abused on screen isn't legitimizing it, but to me it feels like it is, iykwim.

There has been sexual violence in The Walking Dead.

Very little, and it's generally alluded to, not played out graphically. There is no nudity either that I can recall. In general and in particular with the main characters their sex isn't really a factor, Maggie is the leader in her group, she is not the ' female leader'.

Not going to get into it with you @CaptainBrickbeard . Everyone has different taste. I can't even stand rape scenes in books. While I accept that such revolting acts are carried out on people (usually women and children), I don't wish to see it even if it is allegedly "crucial to the story" that I do.

I don't mind a bit of gore, but I just cannot watch graphic depictions of sexual violence on screen. No matter how amazing the story is, it just sickens me. Honestly I don't understand how people can stomach it.

They accept it as fictional and separate from real sexual violence in exactly the same way that you separate 'a bit of gore' from real murder.