GoT is actually disgusting, isn't it?

[Miljah]

In what way can it be described as 'entertainment'?

I seriously, don't understand why people happily sit down to watch the carnage, the immolation, the screaming children.

What is wrong with people?

“Why is it horrible? Do you think people who watched the Ted Bundy film, now go out to rape and kill women? ”
No, of course not.

“War, rape, burning people (acid attacks) and political violence is all wrong and shouldn't be on our screens. Yup.”

There is a difference between news and entertainment.

War, rape, burning people (acid attacks) and political violence is all wrong and shouldn't be on our screens.

So what should be?

And why shouldnt it be?

Who made you judge and jury OP? What gives you the right to condemn peoples choices? Especially choices that have absolutely no impact on you personally.

You've made no effort to take in board other viewpoints or develop any kind of coherent argument.

You don't seem to understand that people are complex and multi dimensional. It's possible to watch a violent TV programme and suspend disbelief but still be a lovely, caring individual. My DH loves a program called Gomorrah which is pretty violent.....he still cries at stories about sick children on the news or in the paper. His choice of TV programme doesn't define him.

"Maybe, I don't really want to be on the 46 bus alongside you tomorrow"

Sadly for you, you cannot censor what other people do, feel or think. If you feel that strongly about not sitting next to me on a bus, you will have to stay at home.

You've made no effort to take in board other viewpoints or develop any kind of coherent argument.

Much the same as those on the other side of the argument.

“You've made no effort to take in board other viewpoints or develop any kind of coherent argument.”

Unlike the highly thoughtful and coherent -
“I think there’s too much gratuitous violence- particularly sexual violence- in GoT”
“What about the Bible and Shakespeare-do you want to ban them too? And the News? Should we stop showing that?”

*Have you watched either series?

Sansa marrying Bolton and hee being tortured by him, was pivotal to Sansas story and character arch. As I said, the books and show are not exactly the same.

It's odd that sexual violence is ok to out on TV if it's in the books. But not ok, if it's not in the books? How does it been written down first make it ok?

Also the first almost rape was important too. The discussion about why the people hate sansa, that she has with the hound, explains alot about the society and attitudes of the people of kings Lansing. All important.

Yes they could have just had he beaten. But facts are that in real life, a few hundreds years ago she is more likely to have been beaten and raped. Rather than just beaten. It happens even now. A woman in her own, jumped by a angry mob of men is more likely to be raped than just beaten.

Why would a show pretend that doesnt happen?*

@Icandothisallday - yes, I have watched all of GoT more than once. I am a big fan but I'm not blind to its faults and the rape of Sansa is one of them.

They could have developed her character without using rape, it was not needed and I'm sure the writers could have found a way to the Battle of the Bastards without it. I did almost give up watching GoT because of the Sansa storyline, but glad I didn't on the whole.

coherent argument

All I've seen from.fans is:
"It's not real, it's entertainment"
Which doesn't really cover it does it? We could say that about any extreme is books and movies.
Does watching extreme scenes make you extreme? No of course not, no more than listening to heavy metal makes you a murderer or suicidal.
Does constant bombardment of violence, sexual or otherwise, desensitise the viewer? Considering the changes in TV shows from modern day to days passed where it wouldn't be acceptable, I'd say it does.
Further and further and more extreme the media becomes, the more desensitised to it everyone becomes. Take a classic film such as Psycho. That almost didn't get released because it showed a flushing toilet. You can Google that. Many years later slasher fans aren't happy unless there's complete bodies torn apart in 4k hyper realistic High Definition.
Does it affect us as a society beyond consumption of media? I believe it does. The whole.of society is more aggressive, rod rage, happy slapping, etc. Society is more selfish than ever where people only think for themselves, proven in any car park in any supermarket where parent toddler bays get taken just because, people parking in to spaces, just because. Or people blocking ambulances because of their inflated sense of self importance.
Now I'm.not saying GoT makes people selfish or violent. I'm saying mass media, constant bombardment of digital images and sensory overload and the constant pushing of extremes in all consumed media, TV, films, porn etc, all add into the world becoming less enraged by the disgusting, more accepting of the sickening, more selfish, more aggressive and a whole bunch less pleasant to exist in.

I think it’s a weird time to be making this argument, when the denouement of the series is basically ‘you were enjoying watching the pretty girl being cool and thinking her violence was righteous, look at the horror you’ve created’. The author is anti war and pro democracy and he wrote a series designed to show how easily we’re tricked into this. He specifically wrote about shades of grey and there being good people on both sides.

But there have been some measured arguements and comments which go beyond the one dimensional argument the op is putting forward.

Yes there is violence, nudity and sex in GoT but there is so much more to it than that. However, I can understand that not everyone will like it and that's fine! It doesn't mean those that do like it are disgusting or evil.
GoT doesn't have the monopoly on violence and sex

BertrandRussell that not quite the argument, though.

The OP is making a value judgement on people who watch it.

But not a value judgment on people who watch other things.

*monkey" but that isn't what the op is saying....and my post was directed at her.

It shows peoples tastes over time just don’t change, which is what I find fascinating. Gladiators, executions and rape have always been considered entertaining for the masses and it seems they still are. I wonder if the Romans could have made gladiator shows on tv with special effects they would have eschewed the real life violence? And yes Titus Andronicus is so gory that many people in the audience actually fainted when I saw it once. We have our modern equivalent of bear bating too, maybe banning the JK show is the next step in human evolution?

I think Martin has an interest in the extremes of the human condition and understanding the psychologies of that. And this is where his writing most shines.

His villains are more horrifying than average, he’s exploring the extremes of psychopathy with them in various ways. Joffrey gives way to Ramsay gives way to Euron and each one is most twisted than the one before (book Euron, show Euron is a fucking cartoon character).

However he’s most impressive when investigating the effects on the victims and how they are shaped by what they experience. Theon/Reek (the Reek chapters are actual masterpieces, I’ve never read anything like them), Sansa, Arya, even Dany.

So I’d say it’s the opposite of gratuitous, but linked to extremes of the human condition which clearly interest him.

The show did overdo, particularly the sexual violence, in season 1. But it was reigned in after that and there’s plenty in the books they didn’t show (like what Ramsay actually likes to do with his wives).

Having said that though, I’m intrigued at why GOT gets all the flack when a lot of quality tv at the minute is pretty graphic.

I found the second season of line of duty harder to watch than anything in GOT. I’ve just watched a theatrical murder in Killing Eve which would put GOT to shame.

That’s before you start talking about the endless shelves of crime fiction, war movies, violent video games and historically, fairy tales, mythology of all countries, the Greek classics, the bible, Shakespeare, Elizabethan revenge tragedy. It goes on and on and on.

I stand by my opinion of the OP and/or alt from Monday 13-May-19 22:12:23

Haha, quality trolling OP - quality

I'm particularly enjoying the goal post shifting by posters who apparently know more about the source material and inspiration for the books than the author himself

I'm particularly enjoying the goal post shifting by posters who apparently know more about the source material and inspiration for the books than the author himself

How are you concluding that, Martin’s very open about some of his source inspiration.

He has a vast interest in European history in particular and the influence is evident across the whole series.

He has a vast interest in European history in particular and the influence is evident across the whole series

Oh that is entirely my point - its the posters dismissing "claims of history etc" that I find funny. I was talking to GRRM at events about his research a decade before they got near the TV.

But I'm a life life SF&F fan, I have decades of the readers of "improving books" sneering at some of my bookshelves

its the posters dismissing "claims of history etc" that I find funny. I was talking to GRRM at events about his research a decade before they got near the TV.

Oh sorry I misunderstood you.

I think there are a lot of people out there with very fixed ideas about what fantasy writers, readers and subject matter are like and struggle to comprehend that GOT doesn’t match their prejudices.

I actually enjoyed the first ten million books. The second ten million I didn’t enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline.....

I'm saying mass media, constant bombardment of digital images and sensory overload and the constant pushing of extremes in all consumed media, TV, films, porn etc, all add into the world becoming less enraged by the disgusting, more accepting of the sickening, more selfish, more aggressive and a whole bunch less pleasant to exist in.

I think this is nostalgia for a time that didn't actually exist.

I think it's more probable that the media is a reflection of and response to ourselves, a symptom rather than the cause. Western Europe and America in the mid-late 20th century enjoyed unprecedented lengths of peace and prosperity. What did this humanity do with it? Fantasised about violence and war.* Endless war films, endless horror films. The Blob. War of the Worlds. Apocalypse Now. Star Wars. Threads. Video nasties. Independence Day. Harry Potter. Etc. etc.

If we can assume there's something in the human psyche that craves violence and war, I'd far rather it was satisfied by fantasy violence and war than the real thing. Ideally, it wouldn't be in our psyches in the first place, but I have no idea how to go about achieving that. I do know censorship and banning won't work and never have.

*And a bunch of other, far more progressive stuff too. Humanity is a mixed bag.

Wow, this thread is unbelievable...

I'm a nurse.
Which means my job is to care for people every day.
I'm good at my job.
I'm married to a lovely person and we are expecting our first child.
I am not violent.
I am not a psychopath.
I live my life in much the same way as any other person you see in the street.

I love GoT.
I love horror movies.
I enjoy watching stuff with violence in it.
I have played violent video games.
I like rock and metal music.
I am not anti-porn.
I also enjoy watching and reading things that aren't violent and have a great love of history in particular.
I can separate fact from fiction and I still get outraged about atrocities and injustices in the world.
My brain can make the distinction between media violence and real life violence. As can that of any intelligent human.

You absolutely cannot compare a fictional TV show with Jeremy Kyle, a show designed to make people gape at the real life problems of unfortunates.

According to some mumsnetters here, there's something wrong with me and people wouldn't want to sit next to me on a bus!

Let 👏 people 👏 enjoy 👏 things!
Without saying they're the reason society is going to shit!

"I didn't like what they did to Sansa with the Bolton marriage storyline. It wasn't in the books (a different character was married off to Ramsay) and I don't understand why the writers made that choice."

Sansas childhood friend was married off to Ramsey and rape was the LEAST of what he did to her. Sansa knew that by allowing it to happen, she was partly responsible for the hell her friend was sentenced to, and thats where some of her hardening came from. Honestly, I think the tv version was less awful than the book.

There is a difference between showing those things as news items and using them for "fun"

There is a difference between news and entertainment

Which is? What do I gain out of knowing some sicko who lives 200 miles away from me threw acid on his own son's face? What does the boy gain from the whole country knowing what he's been through?

Well, I don’t think there should be graphic pictures of things like an acid attack victim on the news, either, frankly. And there usually aren’t. But we do need to know what’s going on in the world.