Madeleine McCann documentary - part 2

[HollowTalk]

There isn't space on the first thread so thought I'd start another.

I'm watching the first episode and have a couple of questions.

When Kate went back to the apartment (and found her daughter was missing) she was surprised the door was open further than it should be. Yet she hadn't been there before, had she? The friend went the previous time (and didn't bother to check the children were there) and Gerry went the time before. So why was Kate surprised to see the door further open? And why was she going to go back again without checking? The door slammed due to the open window, which made her open it to check the window.

Also, the woman (don't know her name, sorry) who played tennis with Gerry said that he was going up the hill to the apartment (for the first check) and she said, "You're going the wrong way!" and he said, "I'll be back in a minute, Madeleine's (or my daughter's) gone missing. And then when the woman heard a child had gone missing she didn't realise it was Gerry's. That sounds so odd. Not suspicious, just odd.

Hollow I thought the guy who checked just listened at the door and didn't go in .But I could be wrong !

Damn, I wish I still had the free month of Netflix so that I can watch this documentary. Instead, I used it up for the drivel that is Haunting of bloody Hill House...

HollowI thought the guy who checked just listened at the door and didn't go in .But I could be wrong !

Yes, but Kate wouldn't have known that at that point in time. Presumably the fact that he didnt actually go in the room only came out after the disappearance. Well, if I had volunteered to check on someone's children and not actually gone into the room and seen them, I wouldn't admit to that the minute I got back to the table. So Kate would have assumed he had gone in, which makes her concern about the open door a bit weird.

I just think the whole checking without looking is pointless anyway tbh. We've all checked on our kids, one of the things you surely do is look at them. Check they're covered up, in bed not on the floor, the basic things without even thinking they might have been abducted.

It's as if with all their combined intelligence the only scenario they could envisage is one of the dc might be crying so a doorway listen would suffice.

Wasn't it reported in the media, iirc, that 'Cuddle Cat' had been put on a high shelf in the bedroom and that was further evidence that Madeleine must have been abducted as she couldn't have put it there and wouldn't have left the apartment of her own accord without it?

In the crime scene pictures the teddy is clearly on the Madeleine's bed next to the pillow and is reported in the police files as such?

Also there was an accusation that the police had allowed people to enter the apartment which would have caused contamination but when the police arrived the apartment was already full of people, friends, staff etc. It was the National Guard who had started searching before the police arrived as they were located some distance away.

Also something I didn't know was the family sending two UK police liaison officers 'packing'. Quite an odd thing to do as they were sent over to assist them.

They sent two family liaison officers, sent to assist them, packing? I don’t see the relevance of cuddle cat being on a shelf either. Anyone could have picked it up and put it there. I think the public and police have been asked to believe a lot of tosh.

I believe whoever checked without looking didn't actually go in the apartment.

.. after watching the documentary on Netflix I decided to watch the Portuguese documentary on YouTube and it told me everything I needed to know.

The Portuguese investigation was a disgrace, BlackCatFun, so I hope they haven't been involved in that documentary.

Regarding the checking of the apartment ,I've copied some extracts from PJ interviews

"That around 9.05pm, the interviewee went to the area of the apartments. Notably to the area near the windows of all the children's bedrooms. That he did not hear any noise. That he considered that all the children were sleeping. That all the children's bedroom windows were closed, notably the windows that gave access to the bedroom occupied by Madeleine."

That after this check, he returned to the restaurant, saying that all the children were asleep. However, Gerry, Madeleine's father, went to the area of the apartments to check for himself if the children were asleep. That Gerry would have entered into his apartment and that he checked to make sure that Madeleine and the twins were sleeping in their bedroom, where it was quite dark. The bedroom door was left ajar. That five minutes later, Gerry came back to the group in the restaurant.

In answer to a question from the inspector, the interviewee says that Gerry will have gone to check at that time because he will not have heard the witness say that he had been there.

At around 9.25pm, the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine's apartment to check on the children. He states that the door of the bedroom that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots. That he couldn't see the bed occupied by Madeleine, but as it was all quiet, he deduced that she was sleeping. That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the Master' bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open
www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD.htm

Gerry's statement extract

"at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine. "He then went to the WC" where he remained for a few moments, left, and bumped into a person he had played tennis with and who had a child's push chair, he was also British, he had a short conversation with him, "returning after that to the restaurant." At about 21.30 his friend Matt (member of the group) went to the apartment, where his children were and on his way went to the witness' apartment, entering by means of a glass sliding door that was always unlocked and was located laterally to the building. He entered the bedroom, he observed the twins and he did not even notice whether Madeleine was there"

www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

Based on what Hollow? That they didn't find Madeleine?

Well, there was the delay in a proper investigation for one thing and then there was the fact they were so intent on blaming the parents that they didn't carry out a proper investigation. IMO, of course.

the interviewee says that Gerry will have gone to check at that time because he will not have heard the witness say that he had been there.

That doesn't make sense to me. Surely these two people sitting at the same dinner table could have had a conversation? Was Gerry apparently unaware that the other person had been to check at all?

Kate took her daughter’s toy on her patient rounds? Did she actually say that?

“Kate took her daughter’s toy on her patient rounds? Did she actually say that?”

No that’s never been said.

It sounds insanely unlikely...

SilverySurfer, how anybody could watch that full documentary and still think the parents had anything to do with the disappearance of their daughter is beyond me.

I haven’t seen the documentary, but I don’t think the McCanns had anything to do with it. Even if they did, how would they have hidden Maddies body? Wouldn’t they have been seen at some point? Wouldn’t Maddies body have been found by now?
The thing I did find strange from memory though is why the McCanns friends were checking on the the children. I mean if I was on holiday with a couple who had children, I’d expect them to be taking responsibility for them and checking on them. No one can guarantee that any of the other party members actually did check on the children and physically see them. Hence no one can be sure when Maddie was taken.
Also wasn’t the group reluctant about taking part in reconstructions? I mean if your best friends child went missing, wouldn’t you do anything to help them?? Did they try and distance themselves from Maddies abduction maybe to save their own reputations?

One of the most interesting things about this case is the incredible amount of attention it's been given. Of course it's tragic and heartbreakingly sad but there are, unfortunately, so many missing children...

Of course, the fact that it remains unsolved, especially after all the attention, work, time, money, support and worldwide exposure is so bizarre!

I hope the McCanns find Madeleine, or at least find out what happened to her, so they can have some measure of peace and healing. It must be an absolute nightmare to be so unrelentingly exposed to publicity, curiosity and unfair condemnation.

I don’t think that Maddies disappearance will ever be solved.
Ben Needham is believed to have been killed accidentally,although I don’t think that’s 100 per cent confirmed.
Katrice Lee went missing from a British Army supermarket in Germany in 1981. She has never been found.

I've always had my suspicions about the parents, but after having watched the documentary, I don't believe that they had anything to do with it. In fact, when I finished it, I felt sympathy and deep sadness for them.

The points that stick in my mind -

1. They're quite an unlikeable couple, imo. Yet the emotions that they showed throughout the documentary, a lot of that wasn't shown in the media when it happened. They were edited to appear colder than they actually are, I think.

2. Why would they keep pressing for more investigation if they were guilty? Nobody could be that confident that they had committed the perfect crime, and it would never be uncovered.

3. At the beginning, I can recall being confused why it was always assumed that she had been abducted. However, when my dc were little, and they inevitably disappeared in Asda or whatever for 10 seconds, that was my first thought.

I feel for them. In my opinion, it's been a massive witch hunt.

I don’t think the parents had anything to do with it. But I can’t see them as just helpless victims of the media attention because they’ve been key players in keeping this in the public eye and being determined to stick doggedly to the theory that she was abducted from the apartment despite this being just one theory, with no more evidence to back it up than any other theory. I also think they were heavily invested in trying to downplay the neglect element, not least because everyone in their group was a professional person with a lot at stake. So I think time lines got blurred and check ups on the children were not as regular or thorough as were first reported. This business of whether the door was ajar, whether it was like that at the previous check, whether the children were actually seen or someone just listened at the window.... along with the parents insistence that abduction from the bed was the only possible explanation... it muddied the waters from the start.

I feel very sorry for the McCanns and most of all for Madeleine who is the central victim in this. But I agree with pp that the McCanns are not likeable people. That element of them trying to preserve their reputations always come across; they’ve never acknowledged that they were wrong to leave the children. The most they have said is that in hindsight they regret it, which is quite different to saying it was wrong full stop. Even if MM hadnt gone missing it was a bad decision for all sorts of reasons, not least because they knew Madeleine had talked about waking up and crying along with one of the toddler siblings.

I too hope the case is resolved in the parents lifetime so they can at least have some sort of closure. However having had millions of pounds thrown at it and still having no evidence it does seem somewhat unlikely sadly.

acciocat supposing that the waters had been clear and not muddied what differences do you think might there have been in the way the investigation proceeded ?

The last episode of the Maddie podcast was about the DNA. Has anyone else listened to it?

The host spoke to one of only 2 labs in the world who can separate out DNA, the same technique that was used to solve the Rachel Nikell and Damilola Taylor murders. They were basically saying, send us the DNA files and we’ll be able to tell conclusively whether or not Madeleine's DNA is there. Worth a listen if anyone’s interested.