Madeleine McCann documentary - part 2

[HollowTalk]

There isn't space on the first thread so thought I'd start another.

I'm watching the first episode and have a couple of questions.

When Kate went back to the apartment (and found her daughter was missing) she was surprised the door was open further than it should be. Yet she hadn't been there before, had she? The friend went the previous time (and didn't bother to check the children were there) and Gerry went the time before. So why was Kate surprised to see the door further open? And why was she going to go back again without checking? The door slammed due to the open window, which made her open it to check the window.

Also, the woman (don't know her name, sorry) who played tennis with Gerry said that he was going up the hill to the apartment (for the first check) and she said, "You're going the wrong way!" and he said, "I'll be back in a minute, Madeleine's (or my daughter's) gone missing. And then when the woman heard a child had gone missing she didn't realise it was Gerry's. That sounds so odd. Not suspicious, just odd.

Just to make absolutely clear again, I’m not suggesting for a moment that the mcanns would have concealed a body. My point is that if MM was knocked down accidentally in the dark after getting out of the apartment, the driver could have panicked and concealed the body. Particularly if there were other circumstances such as drinking or driving an untaxed vehicle.

Whatever happened is something exceptionally unusual and unexplained to leave no evidence whatsoever, so it makes sense to keep an open mind.

I'm not implying anything. I was stating a fact that the police took the mobile phones from them to analyse the calls and texts (they had cleared the memory cards before handing over) to see what their movements-were from the day they arrived.

The inspector in charge (not Amaral) wrote in his final report: She died in the apartment as a result of a tragic accident and the parents simulated an abduction after failing to care of their children. So THEY believe they covered it up for some reason and spent time planning the abduction. Who knows what happened ? Nobody does.

There doesn't seem to be any logical explanation for where the parents found a hidden working fridge to put the body. I mean they aren't just lying around.

I was always cynical about the McCanns but having watched it I believe they are victims.

Re Kate's initial reaction. She and Gerry would most likely leave the kids door in the same position hence noticing the difference.
Her initial thoughts on abduction, the Cuddle Cat, you know your own children. Mind would not wander in the night without Ted.
There's possibly an element of gut instinct. She was uneasy at leaving kids alone in the first place so abduction has possibly already been on her mind.

‘She was uneasy at leaving kids alone in the first place so abduction has possibly already been on her mind.’

KM and GM actually said the complete opposite about this. They were at pains to explain that they felt it was a very safe environment and that they wouldn’t have left their children if for a moment they’d thought otherwise.

Surely if they'd been that worried about abduction they would have locked the door

I've read Kate's book and I've read Amaral's (translated) book. I've also read some of the PJ files, specifically the Tapas 7's statements.

I think in Amaral's book there was mention of Gerry going sailing with a friend from the Tapas 7 a couple of days before MM went missing, and how Gerry's tennis rucksack went missing after that. Also, the morning she went missing, there was an oddity in the way she was signed into the play club. I think it was someone else who signed her in rather than a parent.

Basically, the implication is that MM accidentally died a couple of days before she officially went missing, the parents then hid her body and got disposed of it (Gerry took it in the tennis bag and dropped in the middle of the sea) and then they set it up to look like an abduction. So it was another child they took to the play club that morning (apparently, one of the Tapas 7 had a child who looks like MM).

I'm just stating what Amaral said in his book. I don't necessarily believe it. But it looks like parts of what happened have been missed out on the documentary, including that creepy comment by David Payne.

'I wonder if she wandered outside and then went with someone she knew'

Were all their friends apartments searched by police, does it say in their witness statements does anyone know?

I'm also thinking it could have been someone at the kids club, others must have known they were sleeping unattended

A three year old wouldn't fit into a tennis bag! And why on earth would Gerry do that rather than report her death and have a funeral for her?

@HollowTalk - I agree. I'm not buying into the parents-did-it theory. Solely because the practicalities of it is near impossible. I'm only quoting what Amaral said.

Me neither. I can’t believe as parents they would dump her body In the sea. That’s far too much for me to believe

I’m not buying into that theory either. My gut feeling is that the parents didn’t have anything to do with her disappearance and have no idea where she is. Not sure what I think re: other members of the group; impossible to say with all the muddled statements and confusion around timelines. My gut feeling is wandering out (followed by opportunist abduction or accident) or even something which started as a burglary is far more likely than a planned abduction from her from the bed. The latter is such high risk and it would normally be a different sort of child who would be targeted

The wiping the phone memories is deeply suspicious to me, especially all of the Tapas 7 phones. I don’t know how they got away with that.

I know what I was trying to say. Kate probably dismissed her abduction fears as irrational and highly unlikely etc.

I'm not buying into the theory that they dumped her body at sea. Somebody in the group would have said if they hadn't seen her for a few days.

When you read the book, it seems there was so much going on with various combinations of adults/ children doing activities/ going to kids club/ eating as a group/eating in their own apartments that I suspect they really wouldn’t be able to recall exactly where everyone else’s kids were at any given moment. I mean, if one child wasn’t seen for the whole holiday it would obviously be weird. But if someone’s child wasn’t there for the odd hour or so, I imagine it wouldn’t have looked odd at all... they could have been at the kids club

I was just a bit confused by the comment about Kate:

‘She was uneasy at leaving kids alone in the first place’

Because she has never ever said this; in fact they’ve said the exact opposite; that they felt it was totally safe and wouldn’t have left them if they didn’t feel that way

I am still thinking about this and think one particular member of the group staged an abduction.

@HollowTalk - why though?

When would they have had chance to dump anything into the sea?! As soon as Kate discovered Madeleine was missing, she ran back to the table in a panic. From that moment, the McCaans were surrounded by the press, police, onlookers...

The Portuguese police were mightily hacked off by the (justified) criticism that they were slow, bumbling and incompetent. They allegedly tried to force what's-his-name (the slightly odd English neighbour who lived with his mum) to confess to kidnapping and murdering Madeleine simply because some British journo thought his behaviour was similar to Ian Huntley's. WTAF?

When they ran out of suspects, they decided to check out the McCaans on the off-chance they could pin something on them. It's obvious they didn't like either Gerry or Kate. It was careless and selfish to leave the children unsupervised but as far as the Portuguese were concerned, it was criminal neglect.

Yet what's the motive? Why murder your three year old child, the one you've moved heaven and earth to conceive? And even if you have some sick motive, why do it on holiday? To push this horrible theory even further, wouldn't it be simpler to take the child swimming in the sea and drown her? Then there's the Calpol theory. Two doctors wouldn't accidentally overdose their child on Calpol.

I haven't read the book, I haven't even paid much attention to the case except for when the story broke and during the weeks that followed. My son and Madeleine are the same age, so it was especially heart rendering for me. I did a quick google search before watching the Netflix documentary.

My biggest question is why didn't anyone follow up on the sighting of Madeleine in a petrol station in Morocco?

Because of the Gaspar report, @Ironfloor269.

I still keep thinking about the social worker who recognised David Payne as 'a witness or suspect' in her line of work back home

I had read that Kate had been having difficulties with Madeleine and the police had asked was it true that a relative was going to take over her care, but I don't believe they killed her and dumped her body at sea.

Also Robert Murat looks a bit like him, was that why the finger was pointed?

But that social worker has never come forward, has she? And whose word do we have for that?

And apparently Murat told the SW to go away - can you imagine a SW just obeying instructions from someone like that?

Yes the social worker gave a statement. The police showed her some pictures and she identified him. She claims she heard about the disappearance and called to offer support. Kate told her a couple had taken Madeleine so she tried to get her on her own but Kate became upset and The 3 of them start talking to each other in whispered voices then David Payne said they didn't need her help. She voluntarily offered her services she wasn't sent by the police. Her name was Yvonne something