Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

Actually, according to that timeline, his first "special friend" was when he was 21. I imagine it would have been going on during his teens as well before it came to the worlds notice - as is normally the case with men that develop.paedoohilia due to their own sexual abuse and general abuse as children (like R Kelly who was sexually absused from a young age). Doesnt excuse it, its a pattern though.

That timeline is very interesting. Clearly there are more than the 3 boys we know about who have made allegations.

I imagine the staff haven't come forward because to do so implicates them in the crime. Why would they admit to, for example, procuring pornography and alcohol for MJ knowing he was going to use it to abuse children? They would lay themselves open to prosecution.

Wade Robsons morther chased Michael, not Michael chasing them and trying to get his hands on Wade. This has been stated by the mother herself in previous interviews. It was also recently stated that Michael pushed Wade to work all the time,when in fact (again as stated by the mother previously) Michael actually told her several times to stop pushing him and to let him enjoy his childhood. The woman practically stalked Michael to get him to befriend Wade. Not the other way round, Michael was resistant to begin with.

I agree mydog that's an awful lot of people who allegedly turned a blind eye to someone molesting children. The maid cannot be believed as she's already been proven to be a money grabbing thief and a liar.

If anyone watched the BBC R Kelly documentary it was obvious just how many people around R Kelly knew about the abuse but were reluctant to say anything to the presenter likely because not only did they have conflicted feelings about him, but also because their careers could be at risk and because they turned a blind eye to abuse which is a pretty serious accusation in itself. Perhaps they couldn't be prosecuted for it(I have no idea) but your reputation would be in tatters.

As for being scared you only have to look at MN where people are scared to report their neighbour's domestic abuse, child neglect or drug dealing to the police because they're concerned that the person might find out and threaten or harm them and those people have far less money and power than the MJ Estate, not to mention an army of superfans who are only too ready to make death threats.

Was there really a post upthread saying that MJ's lyrics were important?? FGS. He sang crap pop that lots of people enjoyed, me included, though less and less once he stopped singing vapid nonsense about blaming it on the good times and started singing vapid nonsense about his overwhelming importance to the world.

Pop star abused and exploited from his earliest childhood and enabled from adolescence in a notoriously exploitative industry, became an abuser. Even if 'all' he did was sleep in a bed with these kids, which I don't believe, it was still abuse and grooming of families combined with parental neglect.

It's odd isn't it how lots of stars die and their deaths are NOT followed by accusations of child abuse.

Rusty yes, WTF, who shares their child with a unrelated male adult!!! I'm baffled by the whole thing. What utter crap parents. Yes, I know they were also groomed but if you're not strong enough to see through such utter nonsense then for gods sake don't have kids!

I was a MJ fan and love Motown but when I saw MJ when I was young I remember how he brought on all the children at the end of the show and as a young teenager I remember thinking it does not seem right. Why are all these kids on the stage so late?
Why would you let your kid be paraded by MJ?

Anyhow I firmly believe the boys and their families were groomed. Ofcourse people like MJ groom the family.

It is incredible that MJ got off in the case against him but I think with the Me too movement then finally things may have changed.

Can any of the defenders of mj answer why any grown man want to have sleepovers with children unrelated to him?

Because he still wanted to be a child himself? Fuck that, he was an intelligent astute adult, what on earth was he getting out of these encounters if not to abuse them?

Totally agree popcornetto
MJ got the rights to the Beatles songs ffs.
Just let that sink in.

I can't bear this line or belief where people want to indulge MJ's inner child or child fantasy.

Ofcourse staff will have been paid off too if he paid the Chandler family millions then he could afford to pay off others.

Sorry another think about the parents wade's mum got money for her visa etc so once you start accepting huge amounts of money then she becomes entwined and complicit with the abuse.

Knowing that if there MJ relationship stops then her money will stop flowing. Sick but I think this must have been a motivation especially as all the Australian family were left behind

For all the people keep defending the parents. They let there son share a bed on the first night of staying in his ranch, and let him stay alone with a stranger after spending a weekend with him. They basically rented the poor boy out so they could have fancy holidays and nice things. It's every part there fault as well, they should take some responsibility they did not safeguard that poor boy.

You'll never convince the maniacal fans of his guilt, a couple of which clearly have now shown up on this thread.

Even if you do not find Wade and Jimmy credible (and fwiw I did, it was harrowing and very believable) you must acknowledge there is a disturbing pattern of behaviour that really can't just be explained away by saying MJ was childlike himself. It is not normal and not okay for a grown man in his 20s, 30s, 40s etc to share a bed with multiple unrelated children and groom them and their families to get unrestricted one on one access.

The point is, there are certain facts that can't be disputed. The faxes, the intense attention, the repeated targeting of small boys, the constant gifts, the obvious separation of children from parents, I could go on. It is creepy and very wrong. It is clear that he was guilty.

No one is defending the fact he had sleepovers as an adult. I agree it's not normal. But the parents agreed to it at the time, that was their choice for their children, you or I cannot tell someone else what to do with their kids. If you have children, you and you alone as their parents are responsible for them. As I said before, I wouldn't let my kids.

MJ is not around to defend himself so we have to go off these two and their story and all you can take into account is their credibility and motives. Their credibility is shot due to previous testimonies and the motive is financial gain, massive gain. If there was no money and it was purely about setting the record straight then they might have more in their favour as they would have no other reason to do this.

The #metoo movement, whilst I can get on board with it, we need to be careful. As this in the following case, there is already one documented case of someone jumping on the bandwagon with completely made-up story.

www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/02/25/smol-f25.html

Oh and wrt Macauley Culkin, I don't know what I think there tbh. He could've easily been abused and for several reasons not want to disclose. He was/is close to the Jackson children, he may not be willing to come forward in order to protect them. It may also be that he was a convenient cover story - his relationship with MJ gave a credible and very public aspect to the childlike version of himself MJ liked to present to the world.

Either way, I don't think whether Macauley was abused or not has any effect on whether Wade or Jimmy are credible and neither, in Wade's case, does the continuing relationship with the Jackson family.

I'd love to know if the Jackson family genuinely believe MJ was innocent or if any of them have their own suspicions.

I'm on the fence with this but why lie in the trial before and now commit perjury ?? That's the part that's not sitting right Problem is they are known liars if you can lie in court and with the first case why accept money when your child has been abused I would want to see the person in court there is no amount of money that would stop me and above all he's not here to answer this is he has Macaulay culkin said anything as he was always around Jackson

I am not saying I think he is definitely not guilty but, let's face it, none of us know for sure.

A friend of mine who can't stand MJ and was adamant the stories were true watched this last night. Now she is saying she is not sure because she didn't feel the guys were telling the truth.

Yes the staff could have been paid off but all of them keeping quiet! MJ has been dead, for what, 10 years? How come none of them have said anything? How many staff did he have over the years? Must have been a lot and he had a lot of bodyguards. All paid off and not saying a word!

I don't see how anyone can be 100% certain unless you were there.

My overall thoughts are that if MJ was innocently interested in children and wanting to relive the childhood he never had, there would have been an equal number of male and female child ‘special friends’
It was little boys he wanted to be with and whom he stopped finding sexually attractive when a newer one came along or they reached their teen years
How anyone can believe he wasn’t a paedophile is beyond me

Yes the staff could have been paid off but all of them keeping quiet! MJ has been dead, for what, 10 years? How come none of them have said anything?

This has already been addressed by various pp. If members of his staff now admitted that they had known all along what was going on, it would leave them open to accusations that they facilitated the sexual abuse of many children, which they probably did. Of course they're not going to say anything. Especially if they are in a financially comfortable situation courtesy of the Jackson family.

I'm not sure about Wade lying in court than going back in his word years later, surely if he was groomed and abused and had a crazy selfish mother how herself seemed like she was in love with MJ then it's understandable that he may feel pressure to prove MJs innocence, unless you've been there then I don't think you can really judge.

Agreed his staff would cover for him for as long as they can, why would they drop themselves in it? They are probably still being paid off by the rest of the Jacksons!

The documentary covered how Jackson had multiple bells on doors as a warning system and also got boys to practise getting dressed quickly in case anyone arrived. It also covered how Jackson would isolate the boys by taking them to other places including other more remote houses.

As for bodyguards. Firstly, he was always known to be an odd childlike person who liked to play with children (play in the innocent sense). Maybe the bodyguards - bearing in mind they wouldnt have physically witnessed the actual abuse - bought into that story. And/or maybe they were paid to keep their silence.

Sorry, one last point. Why would any staff member say now "oh yes, I knew what was going on all along, but didnt want to say anything". What sort of person would that make them appear?