Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Telly addicts

Related: Film discussion forum.

Original poster

Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

999 replies

SachaStark · 06/03/2019 15:51

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

OP posts:
ccmrob12 · 07/03/2019 00:13

Watch this for an idea of the kind of guy Wade Robson is PickledLimes, credible my ass....

LuggsaysNotaWomen · 07/03/2019 00:19

A man who blatantly lied about the amount of cosmetic surgery he had had, the skin lightening procedures and the biological paternity of his children - the truth of which was as blatant as the nose on his face (pun intended) to anyone who has eyes to see. But we're supposed to believe that he didn't rape children? Oh do come the fuck on!

That man has managed to gaslight on a epic scale. The fact that anyone can believe a word he says is somewhat unfathomable however, it does speak to the power of idolitory and cultism and is also an object lesson in grooming at a population level.

I believe those men and I think they are the tip of the iceberg.

As for the mothers odd behaviour, it is normal, when recounting anecdotes from the past to also emotionally relive whatever you were feeling at the time even if on hindsight you feel differently about the events. So if they were very proud, or flattered or overwhelmed at the time they will feel that as they retell the story and it will show in their body language. It doesn't mean that they don't regret or feel guilt about what happened.

Backseatonthebus · 07/03/2019 00:21

,it’s irrelevant whether he was a child molester or not.

That's possibly one of the most outrageous sentences I've ever seen on MN. I don't believee in heaven or hell, but it's a comforting thought that he might just possibly be rotting in hell.

YouBumder · 07/03/2019 00:35

I believe Wade and Jimmy and that Michael Jackson was a paedophile and child abuser.

BingLiveisRubbish · 07/03/2019 00:39

@TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge You're deluded! I notice you never said the name of this 'book'

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 07/03/2019 00:44

jaz
Los Angeles Department of Children and Family Services (D.C.F.S.) did interview Janet Arviso for neglect. They also investigated the sexual abuse allegations (his school referred him following the Bashir documentary): a memo was later leaked by the D.C.F.S. claiming the allegations of neglect and abuse were unfounded.
Cynics thought they were covering their arse, especially when Gavin later disclosed and the D.C.F.S. did nothing.
Allegedly a Jackson representative told the agency that the children would be put in private schools (Gavin had dropped out of school due to bullying after the Bashir interview) and the family provided with a home. This didn't happen.
In some rebuttal filming to that documentary Janet Arviso was told to look happy or she would be re-reported to the D.C.F.S.
I do think social services failed the children - all of them - but even if the parents were allowing them to run amok at Neverland, where they had access to alcohol and porn, who was providing those? Oh wait - Michael and his enablers. Zero sympathy from me. He was 25 when he first started these sleepovers - he does not get a free pass from me at that age, shitty childhood or not.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 07/03/2019 00:53

The book she is referring to is 'Michael Jackson was my lover' by Chilean 'reporter' Victor Gutierrez, who appeared on the U.S. tabloid television show "Hard Copy" to claim that there was a videotape of Michael Jackson molesting a boy (Jeremy, the son of his brother Jermaine Jackson's ex-common-law wife, Margaret Maldonado).
Hard Copy was tabloid fodder. Gutierrez was found guilty of malice as there was no tape and he could not reveal a proper source. He fled to Mexico, owing MJ 2 million for slander.

DaisyDreaming · 07/03/2019 00:58

Ccmrob what does the YouTube video cover? It’s an hour long

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 07/03/2019 01:03

ccmrob
I don't have 54 minutes to spare - I am aware that Michael Jackson's niece Brandi Jackson was 'spilling the tea' as the young uns say, by claiming she had had an affair with Wade Robson for 7 years, after being introduced to him by her uncle.
And that this would affect the timeline.
Is that what she says here?

Lovingbenidorm · 07/03/2019 01:20

Just watched it.
Nothing new tbh we all knew it at the time but he had ‘the glamour ‘
(Anyone who’s read Lords and Ladies, Sir TP will know what I mean)
The thing I find really hard to get my head round is the mums.
Up to a point Wades Mum was still vigilant about them not staying in the same room.
Thing is , how many of you mums out there would allow an adult, any adult, relative, famous etc to have free access to your 7yr old child?

Lovingbenidorm · 07/03/2019 01:23

JazKish I had to read what you posted 3 times before I could believe my eyes

donaldducksgranonceremoved · 07/03/2019 01:32

Brandi dated Wade for years and was introduced by MJ to Wade.

Right off to watch the documentary finally...

BusterGonad · 07/03/2019 06:00

I've just watched part 1 and 2 and I am gobsmacked by Joy Robson (Wade's mum) what a stupid stupid woman. Everything she said was literally about herself, she takes no blame and doesn't even want to know what happened to Wade, I mean as a parent we wouldn't want to hear such terrible things, but as a parent we have to hear them and help our child work through it. She made my blood boil. All she cared about was fame and fortune at any cost.

RustyParker · 07/03/2019 07:26

There's no doubt both families were groomed and dazzled by the gifts, money and attention.

What I found interesting was the different approach MJ took to grooming each family, seemingly based on what would ingratiate himself most with each mother. With James Safechuck, the mum seemed to enjoy the idea that her regular family would be a haven for a huge star. MJ's "in" with Wade's mum was promising to make Wade a star, to take him under his wing.

I think it also shows how calculated MJ was, that he was able to adapt his grooming to work with different families so I don't buy into the childlike, naive schtick.

BusterGonad · 07/03/2019 07:30

I agree Rusty both the families (except Wades older brother and dad) were like cult members in regards to MJ, they spoke of him in a godly fashion.
I thought James' mum was very strange when she said she did a dance when she heard MJ had died, as it was so out of character in regards to everything else she was saying about him and the pedestal she had him on. It's as if she felt she had to say it.

Pinksands1 · 07/03/2019 07:35

I've just watched the first 30 mins this morning and am already finding myself so annoyed by the mother of both men. They seem so naive and starry eyed that they were ok with letting their sons be alone with Michael from the very start.

RustyParker · 07/03/2019 07:39

Yes Buster, it didn't ring true did it. I think she even said it twice didn't she? Like she was really trying to convince us she meant it.

And when Wade's mum refused to let him live with MJ for a year but she'd be willing to "share" him Hmm

ccmrob12 · 07/03/2019 08:19

The Mum's aren't convincing at all and they are a key part in their evidence that this was how it all went down. These are the kind of people you get in America who are part of the suing culture, greedy for money.

That video I posted she talks about what Wade was like as a boyfriend and the story how she tells it doesn't match with what Wade is claiming. I wonder if his side of her story will be told in the 2nd part tonight, my bet is will be entirely left out.

KrazyKatlady · 07/03/2019 08:20

The fact that he had an almost constant (but different each year) pre-pubescent young boy as a best friend/companion is just wrong and inappropriate before you even hear what went on behind closed doors.
I watched with DH yesterday and our first thoughts were how would the parents be ok with a grown man having their 7 year old to stay after they had known him 4 hours!??
Secondly how many people must have been complicit in allowing it to happen. The very first bit where jimmy is on the pepsi ad. presumably they didnt swap phone numbers at the time. ...so an agent or ad agency must have given out their home number to MJ. That must be some data protection breach. Then when "they" told Jimmys mum they couldn't find a suite nearer to her son. Who were "they"? Agents, managers, pas,security, many many people must have colluded to enable what went on, r turned a blind eye . (Sadly like with JS)

DuffBeer · 07/03/2019 08:22

Personally I don't doubt their stories for a second. They are 100% believable to me.

Also any man who seeks close contact with children in the way that MJ did, only has one intention. How anyone can think otherwise is just unfathomable.

mydogisthebest · 07/03/2019 08:25

I didn't watch it but looking at the comments on all the many facebook posts/stories it seems the majority don't believe it.

Posters saying the 2 guys looked and acted like they were lying and the mother was laughing and smiling. Surely you would not laugh when talking about your child being abused? Well not if you were normal and telling the truth

PickledLimes · 07/03/2019 08:29

I'm not surprised that the so called majority don't believe it because practically every thread or video on the subject is swamped by MJ fans. They're very good at drowning out dissenting voices.

PickledLimes · 07/03/2019 08:35

Remember that the Mothers(who allowed their sons to sleep with MJ and cross numerous boundaries had a very different experience to that of their sons. They were also groomed(I'm not giving them a pass on their responsibility) but they did not witness the abuse directly and though they know it happened, due to the grooming they also have very fond memories of Michael. He did a lot for their families and made they and their sons feel special. Fame can be a verty intoxicating drug. Unfortunately it seems that they're still in the thralls of it. The part where one said I'll share him with you gave me shivers.

PickledLimes · 07/03/2019 08:39

That video proves nothing, CCmrob. I don't know Wade so I can't vouch for his character either way, but regardless, child abuse victims should not have to be saints to be believed. You can be an unpleasant person and still have been a child abuse victim. You could be a murderer now and still have suffered terribly as a child. The character of the victim makes it no less terrible or likely.

mydogisthebest · 07/03/2019 08:40

Why would the 2 guys' stories not match? It's not like they have never met each other is it?

Why have none of the many staff MJ must have had come forward? They were adults so they would not have supposedly been abused would they? They also would not have been scared or be scared now would they?