Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

@howismovingbungalow @idontdoubtit

I haven’t been through what Wade and James went through or any form of abuse, thank goodness, but it completely and utterly makes sense to me that it was having children that triggered them. I find them completely believable and extremely courageous. I wish so much that this had never happened to them. They were so vulnerable :(

idon't

Yes You I also totally get it re having kids

Thanks Masters

Oddly watching it has brought something positive for me.

I always felt like I have no right to consider myself a victim of abuse. Like my experience doesn’t count and I’m being a drama queen to think that as it “wasn’t that bad”. I’ve felt like a fake.

There was no aggression in my case and I went to the place where this could happen to me. I was never physically forced to do anything.

I feel so validated to see Wade and James recount very similar subtle methods and be taken seriously by many sane people. It is actually a good thing.

Has anyone read that they may exhumed his body?

Idon't . You weren't being a drama queen. It was real. It was abuse. Take care.

Always thought he was creepy and into dodgy stuff with the kids he paraded around in plain sight.
I believe them.
I hope his music is taken off air and he is regarded in the same way as Saville.

Although all forms of abuse are terrible, it feels a lot harder to come to terms with when you know the person, 'love' the person and feel guilt or obligation to them/coerced rather than physically forced. Very difficult subject. Has made me feel better in a way. But really really sad for those boys.

I just watched the second part and it all made sense to me. They were Michael's 'special friend' the one who was going to save him, he'd never survive prison all that completely makes sense of why they lied in court and why they only said something now. The testimony is chilling. The sister said something very prescient, I think. She said the fans don't know Michael, they know "Michael Jackson". They may think they know him but as with all celebrities, even the social media obsessed ones now, we only know what they want us to know. They are total strangers to us.

No one is talking about genuine victims here. Genuine victims should be fully supported.
How do you distinguish "genuine victims" from not genuine ones ccmrob12?

I cried because I loved him, because I was glad, because I was safe, because I felt extreme guilt.

IDontDoubtIt, that makes perfect sense in the context of Wade and Jimmy's conflicted emotions. Their 7 years old selves still love him, but their 40 year old selves recognise him as an abusive monster. And the two selves keep colliding. This thread has really brought into focus for me the reality that sexual abuse victims can have conflicted emotions about their abusers and that it can take decades before they feel able to admit to themselves that they were victims of child sex abuse.

Teyem said "I think there's a huge overlap between the kind of people easily lured into cults and the kind of parents who are easily manipulated by paedophiles."

I think that there's a huge overlap between people easily lured into cults and those who refuse to believe Michael Jackson was a predatory paedophile.

I can't believe anyone still thinks he's innocent. There is so much evidence against him. It's not that bigger stretch that someone as rich, powerful and loved as MJ would be able to keep getting away with it. Ian Hopkins was a little known rock singer and police ignored claims against him for ages. JS was a creepy TV presenter and he got away with it on an industrial scale.

How do the MJ supporters explain the pictures of his special friends naked that were found. What about Latoyers claim of hush money being paid.

Oprah interview is really interesting if anyone not seen it

I've just watched the Oprah interview and very it very moving, Wade has has almost separated himself from his younger self. Even referring himself to 'little/young Wade' and present Wade. James still seems to be so raw.

@DioneTheDiabolist I'll tell you why I don't these guys are genuine. For a starters, Wade Robson is on his 4th version of events from when he first made claims. 4th.

There are still now, to this day, inconsistencies between the what was said in the documentary and the Oprah interview.

The documentary wasn't made so viewers could make their own mind up, as most documentaries are made. It was from one side of the argument, and the thing that did it for me was leaving out so many key parts of the factual time line. It was engineered that way. The reason was because it would have made people say hang on a minute. And finally it was full of words and explanations designed to resonate with other abuse victims and make them say "yeah I understand that". It was designed to fit in with other accounts of abuse victims in the other MJ cases so when you hear them in the documentary it sounds exactly like what they described. In fact it was very clever how they did and if you are on that side of the argument, very well made.

I personally feel, and I'm entitled to this opinion, that you have had the wool pulled over your eyes by these men and the documentary maker. There is too much they left out it wasn't a fair account, and that is the reason for my views on this. I have been called a paedophile apologiser and all sorts in this thread. I haven't verbally attacked anyone in here, it has only come one way.

I am just going from facts, having done a fair amount of research on this like others in this thread have done, rather than just jumping to conclusions or being led in my convictions. I think some in this thread have made their mind up and it would never be changed no matter what evidence was put before you. You also have your right to that view, but you don't have the right to slander other people for having a different view to yours.

@Florescentadolescent "How do the MJ supporters explain the pictures of his special friends naked that were found. What about Latoyers claim of hush money being paid."

What naked pictures? Do you have anything to back that up?

Latoya wasn't paid hush money, she told the world she had proof he was a paedophile and would tell the media, but wanted £500,000 to do so. It was later found, it was her ex-husband behind it and told her to do and say that. It wasn't true and guess what, it was all about money again.

Where are people watching the Oprah one.

The boys ( only ever boys) should never ever have been invited there in the first place it's totally in appropriate. He should never ever have been going anywhere near his bedroom anyway

Some of the accounts of boys raped at boarding school are similar in the sense that some of them only decided they could tell anyone once they had a child of their own. It is not unusual for that delay to happen.

Why are some people's not interested in the fact of a pattern of MJ with young boys - night after night after night.

Wade moved across continents with part of his family to be with MJ.

The power imbalance is sickening.

As the Oprah interview clearly showed abuse victims may take years and years and decades to speak about trauma.

I have looked at the comments directed to Oprah and Wade and James and it is all so sickening. All this rubbish about how Wade had inconsistencies.

cmcrob Wade slept in the same room as MJ at the age of 7. That is not disputed.

How do you explain MJ sleeping night after night after night with minors - young vulnerable boys?

What facts can come back against that?

buds the link to the Oprah interview is in the thread and just can search on YouTube for After Neverland.

I think people are missing the point completely when they keep focusing on Wade being what they perceive to be a “liar” - there are so many Instagram posts about him “lying” and the fact he swore one thing under oath and then said another etc. For goodness sakes the man was / is traumatised and manipulated? Can people not be sympathetic to that?

Is not like lying about whether you had curry for tea last night. The whole context and back story explains why things happened the way they did, why he only felt able to speak out when he did. If people can’t understand that, I am truly sad for humanity. Total lack of empathy.

Still prescribed for him though? Even though there's no doubt he was paying a qualified middleman to get what he wanted.

Propofol is not available to the general public, even by prescription. It is an IV only sedative drug to be used only by anesthestatist or nurse anaesthetists under constant medical monitoring. It is given by continuous IV drip and not injection and is really a bizarre drug to actively seek out.

I always felt like I have no right to consider myself a victim of abuse. Like my experience doesn’t count and I’m being a drama queen to think that as it “wasn’t that bad”. I’ve felt like a fake.

@IDontDoubtIt I feel much the same way. The abuse and neglect I suffered as a child wasn’t anywhere near the scale of Wade and James’ but I can me see myself in a lot of their story. It wasn’t until my 30s having had my kids and therapy, that I knew for a certain, a lot of things that happened to me were abusive. It’s taken me a little while longer to realise that I was a case of child neglect and social services should’ve been involved. They weren’t because my parents were master manipulators and it was my ‘normal’. I’m now late-30s and I’m only just able to communicate what happened with a sibling and my husband. My husband takes it pretty hard as we have known eachother since childhood and he had no idea.

Before my 30s, kids and therapy, I might have known aspects of my childhood weren’t quite right (well no family is normal are they?!) but I never believed I was abused. They always told me I was a drama queen and OTT so it must’ve never happened.

Sinkgirl, "I would bet money that none of the people who think the two men weren’t believable are abuse victims themselves. I expect that pretty much every victim of child abuse can see that they’re legitimate, I certainly can."

Well in all honesty it is not surprising that victim of abuse believe the two men but they certainly don't know for sure they are legitimate do they?

Some posters believe, some don't some are undecided. What I am saying is that none of us know for sure.