Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

I personally have no problem with people continuing to listen to MJ's music but I'm not so sure that he should be celebrated publicly I.e on radio and tv.

Just watched the old Bashire docs.

So Jordy Chandler could discribe distinctive marks on the underneath of Mjs penis. But still people believe its a conspiracy against MJ. That alone is enough proof for me.

MJ also had 'child erotica'.

And all the fans saying he didn't abuse Corey Feldman. He gave him alcohol and showed him porn when he was like 13. That is child abuse.

Jackson family must know about the abuse but are denying it for monetary reasons. Most of his biggest supporters and defenders seem to acknowledge that he did behave inappropriately but are claiming that it wasn't malicious? It was somehow due to his loving nature?! It's bizarre. Also that one of the accusers is clearly lying as he had a girlfriend at the time. As if it's somehow mutually exclusive.

Corey fieldman has also now said that he can no longer defend Micheal.

Aaron Carter also said he was given wine and offered drugs by Michael.

I find it strange that all the fans who talk about how harmless and childlike MJ was overlook the highly sexualised nature of the way he dressed to perform and the very sexualised performances. For someone supposedly asexual etc etc, it really doesn't compute. Watching those little boys trying to emulate his routines made me feel sick.
I am quite interested in his psychology. He was brought up a JW with an abusive father. That in itself would screw most people up. His brothers , I read somewhere shared a room with him and shared inappropriate sexual material with him at a young age.

He seems to have some kind of issue with women, if the testimony of James (I think it as) is correct about MJ talking to him derogatively about women.. In the video clip of MJ , he talks about not celebrating birthdays , which would have been a hangover from the JW indoctrination.
I am sure a psychologist would have a field day with him. Anyway you look at it, the man was very screwed up.
I wonder if MJ wanted to die, and this is why he put such pressure on the doctor to give him higher and higher doses of painkiller. I suspect there were complex reasons he couldn't sleep. Perhaps he feared being caught and exposed.

Even Cory Feldman has said that MJ showed him pornographic images when he was 13yo and said that there were things that happened between the two of them that was inappropriate.

He's denied csa but I suspect, given the information above and the way CF had been abused by others, that his bar for csa is artificially high.

Corey said that he can not and never has defended Michael due to his position in campaigning for victims of sexual abuse. He also said he is not judging Michael. That is all.

I find it strange that all the fans who talk about how harmless and childlike MJ was overlook the highly sexualised nature of the way he dressed to perform and the very sexualised performances. For someone supposedly asexual etc etc, it really doesn't compute.

This ^

He also said, on the topic of MJ showing him pornography:

"And for all these years, I probably never thought twice about it – but in light of recent evidence, I have to say that if my son was 14 years old – 13 years old, and went to a man’s apartment that was 35, and I knew that they were sitting down together talking about this, I would probably beat his ass.”

Completely agree certainlymerry

I don't want to hearJackson's music. I'm not a fan but did like some early stuff. But now if I heard it on the radio I would switch off because I can't separate his music from his crimes.

Does anyone remember how David Guest used to describe Jackson? He was a personal friend and said he spoke in a much deeper voice and swore like a trouper. We were all hoodwinked.

green no we weren't all hoodwinked. As I've said many times, anyone who thought Michael always spoke in a high voice is a bit of an idiot.

I wasn't a fan so didn't really give 2 hoots about MJ but many people who bought/buy into his mantled excuses might have/do.

manchild

I've spent the best part of three days reading both of these threads and not sure about anyone else but feel completely overwhelmed by it all and can't stop thinking about what went on, for how long and why no-one ever seemed to hold up a hand to him and say enough!

I watched the channel 4 film and did find it pretty convincing although it was clearly well polished and expensively made. Very carefully curated. I still believed them though - watching Oprah convinced me totally - especially James, that poor man - he looks destroyed 😪

Oh and I always thought ccrob was male and why shouldn't he join to comment on this topic, it's a pretty hefty theme.

green some may have. But even believing indulging in a lost childhood I've never believed he was constantly in a childlike state. I also know from videos that he doesn't always talk in a high voice. And I say that as a fan. I'm not sure why anyone would've thought he was permanently childlike to be perfectly honest

Colour It was carefully curated and it is designed to play on peoples emotions. I am rather confused by the fact its released on DVD next month. Money aside (which it wasn't meant to make) its a very unusual thing to release on DVD

No I don't either, always thought he was a prat.

Triptrap I think the film made me cautious as they were all so beautifully made up, hair done, expensive tasteful clothing, high backed leather chairs, softly lit - it definitely brought out the cynic in me. By the end I was stunned and in tears - the fact that them having children triggered it all so vehemently made utter sense. I was still a bit uncomfortable with the presentation of the film but the Ophrah one - well it's obviously filmed live and their reactions were unedited in the same way.

I absolutely love his music but Christ he was the weirdest guy ever and I cannot bear to even look at a picture of him. The thought of what some of those children went through is just horrific.

Thomas mesereau is a tremendous lawyer.
He is incredible.

He opened with wade etc defending MJ as he knew it would be incredibly powerful.
He got the PR right for MJ.

He made the family back off from being vocal about race and mentioning lynching because he knew the Santa Barbara jury would be mainly white.

He got MJ to do Pr to promote him being part of the community. He thought this was important to mention that MJ employed people locally at Neverland.

He wanted to humanise MJ so the jury would see him in a humanistic way and part of the Santa Barbara community.

The lawyer went to the judge so MJ could state that he regretted the previous settlements. As he needed to get that across for this case.

The lawyer objected to the Bashir documentary being shown in court but he did so when he actually really wanted the bashir documentary to be shown because MJ had also video evidence of the same interview.

So the MJ team could cherry pick what would be shown at the trial - this mean get MJ could be shown in a favourable light and obviously as it was favourable video that he could submit and MJ could not be cross examined and the jury saw the favourable video.

There are a few podcasts where MJ's solicitor speaks about the MJ trial.

He had it all sussed and is an incredible lawyer but even he thought it would be a hung jury at the very best outcome.

Why wouldn't the film be released on DVD? Film-makers do it for money, that is their job, and it's not unusual for a high profile documentary film to be released on DVD.

No issue with a man's pov on here, there are plenty all over MN, but ccmrob12 seems rather over-invested.

And he hasn't been back since a PP asked if he was acting on behalf of MJ's team. Of course, he could just be doing something more interesting with his Sunday morning, which I really should do as well. Good job this thread will soon be full.

I also don't see why you would be surprised that high production values are applied to a 4-hour documentary. It's a bit different to Oprah's TV shows which are a chat show format, and recorded "as live".

It isn't an unusual thing to release on DVD at all. There have been quite a number of child abuse documentaries released on DVD e,g Capturing The Friedmans, Mea Maxima Culpa, Deliver Us From Evil, Happy Valley, Twist of Faith etc.