Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

Watching Oprah. Powerful. Matthew Jackson crying, the boys being told they were saving him, how they'd been groomed before they'd ever met. How MJ became their whole world, and if they told the truth their whole world would shatter.

But Safechuck's face and eyes are Totally heartbreaking. I really pray he survives this hell.

I think Jackson's death was an example of what extreme weather can buy you in the American health system. He paid the doctor to inject him with propofol, it's the drug (looks like milk) they give you for a general anaesthetic. How screwed up is that? Jackson got whatever he wanted in so many aspects of his life.

Can't see how anyone would be prescribed Propofol unless in a hospital setting. WHY does anyone need a GA?

angeladelight sorry to hear of your abuse

I agree.

I find it strange how MJ could just spout off so many lies about his skin, his operations, the whole innocent line.

How anyone can defend a man who had children sleep in the same room as him night after night is beyond me.

They don't. But wealth and power removes the "why".

Thank you. I am “lucky” in that it was a one off and I wasn’t physically hurt. Just to clarify, my mother believed me and was on side but I don’t think she knew what to do about it. So we just didn’t and it isn’t talked about.

In particular, I found James’ accounts and general demeanour to be quite upsetting. I could see it in his eyes that he has struggled with this and probably will for the rest of his life.

Remove the why and you have MJ.

Isn't telling how lots of us survivors found James Safechuck's demenour 'triggering'.

@howismovingbungalow I noticed his detachment almost immediately. Talking about things happening to “you” not “I”. It really is true that when an abuse survivor thinks about their abuse, you think of it as if it happens to someone else, like you leave your body and you’re watching. I’m fascinated by the psychology of it really, which I think was my main motivator for watching the documentary.

rageagainst maybe Ross working for the defence in Jackson's 2005 trial and then working in Murrays just means he goes with who pays him most. Who knows?

But wasn't his role to be in Jackson's defense team so was not his role to support Jackson and help discredit the prosecution?

I must be too tired to get all this but I don't see how anything a private investigator says really gets to the heart of Wade Johnson and Michael Jackson.

Wade was 7, MJ shared bedrooms with a 7 year old. Is that in dispute somewhere?

The circumstantial evidence is so compelling.

"I'll be working on this for the rest of my life" Safechuck.

There are lots of people out there who really don't understand abuse.

I believe them. I also believe it can take until you have children to be triggered.

People talk about the lack of emotion from the men, when talking about the abuse. To me that is detachment. Matter of fact. Looking down and seeing someone else even.

The real key was when Wade talked about his son. When he thought about MJ doing those things to his son he broke down. That was not acting. It's normal to not feel anything for yourself, but when it comes to your children....that's often why it's triggered.

I mean wade robson apologies I am tired.

Hats off to all the abuse victims on here. I don't really know what else I can say.

The discussions must be triggering.

I believe James and Wade.

"I felt guilt this weekend thati let him (MJ) down". Safechuck. Child abuse damages and changes a child's brain.

Has anyone read this website, includes full list and lots of details of all of the 'boys'. Same
Pattern with all.

I really wonder about Omer Bhatti. He was groomed from a kid to be a partner and treated as such at memorial service. Definitely must have been abused as a kid.

mjandboys.wordpress.com

Totally Angeladelight, James dissocation is very real and raw when watching him talk about his abuse.

I can really see me in him. Sadly, it is probably a lightbulb moment for thousands of abuse survivors.

@howismovingbungalow I’m so sorry you can see yourself in James. It’s heartbreaking. I hope you have had support and gained some peace over time

I would bet money that none of the people who think the two men weren’t believable are abuse victims themselves. I expect that pretty much every victim of child abuse can see that they’re legitimate, I certainly can.

As for this (I gave up reading the thread when I got to this part):
MJ is not around to defend himself so we have to go off these two and their story and all you can take into account is their credibility and motives. Their credibility is shot due to previous testimonies and the motive is financial gain, massive gain

1. You clearly have absolutely no idea what it’s like to have to admit to having been abused at all, let alone in a court, let alone against a celebrity, let alone a celebrity who has groomed you so entirely that you believe they loved you completely. I refused to report my abuser to the police when I finally told my mother because the thought of them going to prison or even being arrested broke my heart. You clearly do not understand this. I wouldn’t be able to testify now and it was over 20 years ago. I didn’t even want to change my fb profile picture to show I had been a victim when that whole campaign was happening, or publicly declare “me too”. These men are incredibly brave.

2. Either they’re in it for the money, or the adult man who had an endless stream of Pre-pubescent boys on tour with him, in his house, in his bed, on his lap at awards shows etc was a child abuser. It baffles me that anyone at all is naive enough to believe its the former.

3. If you think money is impacting credibility, surely you should distrust their previous evidence since they were clearly offered and given money / property etc in exchange for that testimony? Or is it just that that’s the story you want to believe, and this one isn’t?

As for Macaulay Culkin, I think it’s extremely likely he was abused by MJ and if he never wants to talk about it or admit it, that’s nobody’s business but his own.

If you watch the film An Open Secret about the sexual abuse of boys in Hollywood, you will look at child actors who go “off the rails” very differently. You’ll see the pattern of young boys having lots of fame and lots of attention from older men in the industry, caught up in the lifestyle (often plied with drink and drugs), abused by those men and then discarded - the media paints them as fuck up drug addicts, and they know that nobody will ever listen to them or take them seriously again. Think about it - how many child actors (Male or female) can you think of who fit this pattern? I can think of at least ten off the top of my head.

@sinkgirl agree with everything you just said. I read a lot of blind item sites. I do take things with a pinch of salt but there are too many celebrities who apparently have been abused, and their adult life shows it.

Also I haven’t seen the second part yet so I’m unsure if they cover this - Safechuck did testify on behalf of MJ at the first trial... when he was 15 years old, not long after he was groomed and discarded. Maybe he thought he could win MJ back? He refused to testify in 2005, and first talked about the abuse six years ago now. How has he “massively profited” from this in the last six years?

I have no issue if they sue the MJ estate - their lives have been ruined by this piece of shit.

Well said Sinkgirl

and thank you angeladelight - I'm 42, 20yrs down the line from my own court case, most days I'm good and just coasting along this life like everyone else. Other days, I can't get over being damaged from the age of 3, I cannot accept that I was born to fucking feel this ... this shit ...

Anyway.

Name changed to post on this.

I can only think that people who don’t believe the plain facts of this must be incredibly stupid or spectacularly delusional.

I was groomed then abused between the ages of 11 and 16. Every single bit of the testimony from Wade and James rings true to me. Right down to the gifts making you feel obligated. The love and care that you can’t square with the things this person you care about wants you to do/wants to do to you. “If anyone knew I’d go to prison and I couldn’t survive that” but worse “it would kill my wife if that happened, it would destroy her”.

My boyfriend at 16 saw my abuser casually touching my boob in public once, but it was such a fleeting glance that he ended up accepting my fervent denials. I was afraid my boyfriend would hate me for “cheating” on him.

When I got the phonecall aged 18 to tell me he had died of an aneurysm, I physically crumpled and cried for days. I cried because I loved him, because I was glad, because I was safe, because I felt extreme guilt.

I held a special place at his funeral, I walked arm in arm with his widow who I loved dearly too. I was devastated at his death for a dozen conflicting reasons. Then I put it all in a box in my mind and hid it for 8 more years.

The day I finally told my Mum I had been abused as a teenager after 9 months of therapy aged 26?
She kind of said “Oh.” “It was that guy wasn’t it?”
And then never mentioned it again.

So why don’t we tell? Why do we not seem to totally hate our abusers? Why might we lie for them multiple times before the truth comes out?

IDon't thank you for sharing - I appreciate it.

I wasn't sexually abused as a child but I skirted close to some pretty nasty situations. I was witness to some dreadful behaviour.

When I see my own DC at those ages and what I was put through it makes me sick.