Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

I also think it was wrong of Wade, Jimmy and their families to accept money and other gifts as adults, and testify for MJ in court and them come out and talk about the sexual abuse when he's no longer able to defend himself. They are not entirely blameless either imo.

You HAVE to be fucking kidding me.

Class victim blaming there IRON

Wow IRON, have you watched the programme? Can’t you understand the years of grooming and the love they had for Jackson? Didn’t all the complex issues come to the fore in the programme? I don’t understand how anyone can watch it and still pedal put that nonsense

I think Michael Jackson has defended himself many times and also had expensive lawyers defend him - and also Wade and James defend him!

Now Wade and James are speaking up for themselves. Finally - good for them. They are talking care of themselves.

The thing I most took from the programme is exactly what the maker of it says he wants people to understand. What grooming is and how deep seated it is, how it affects your feeling for someone throughout abuse and after. That you can love
Your abuser. How can people not understand this after watching ??

True, Jackson had his say, it’s not fair to say he can’t defend himself, he did, over and over again

The thing I most took from the programme is exactly what the maker of it says he wants people to understand. What grooming is and how deep seated it is, how it affects your feeling for someone throughout abuse and after. That you can love Your abuser.

Yes - the impact of that is staying with me today. It was illustrated so well.

Fair enough when they were kids and groomed within an inch of their lives by that awful man

And everything you need to know is in that sentence "Iron* that is presicely why their family relationships went to shit and they made poor decisions.

The thing I most took from the programme is exactly what the maker of it says he wants people to understand. What grooming is and how deep seated it is, how it affects your feeling for someone throughout abuse and after. That you can love Your abuser.

100% spot on. I’ve never seen it laid so bare and truthfully before.

If we can all take that away, that abuser don't present like a monster

They are often people we know like and trust..if we can all evaluate our own friendships, relations...

And remember mj children might be a little bit safer

abuser don't present like a monster

Michael Jackson made himself look more and more like the Child catcher and had a pinocchio style theme park, where parents weren't allowed and boys could do what they liked....

That’s also true CAPTAIN, from
The outside it looked weird but the kids never saw him like that nor did the parents. The kids saw him as their best friend who loved them

Sorry if I'm being thick. Yes, i watched both parts ofthe documentary. What i don't understand is, why did they accept MJ's money to testify for him as adults? Was it that they still hasn't come to grips with the abuse and THOUGHT he was actually innocent?

The sued and lost I thought ! I did see that one who testify had his parents' mortgage written off by MJ but a young man of 20 (I have two - twins) is not mature enough to be over any abuse and feel free to speak up - the embarrassment is so awful and people have mixed emtion - you can love your abuser, your kidnapper even. It's all very common - not everyone hates that perseon, same with battered wives - they often deeply love their husband except at the points when he is beating them up.

IRON they tried not to get involved with the trial at all but were forced. They simply were not ready to open the can of worms of this abuse and so continued to bury it. Opening up about abuse like this can take years and years. They also still felt they owed it to Michael and didn’t want to let him down.

Ok, I understand now. Gosh, it's scary how deep seated grooming can be.

And that’s the message of the programme.

Captain looking at everything with fresh eyes now he is the child catcher from way back Neverland is the ultimate indulgence of his fantasies

Does anyone think he groomed the public? i.e. us?

Yes - I think he did groom the public - us.

Seduction I suppose is not just sexual but it pulls you in. It makes me realize that I have known a few seductive personalities - who also have an abusive side.

That's an excellent question. He did everything in plain sight with no apologies and no changes to his behaviour. Nor was the persona he created an easy sell.
But the defence wanted women on the jury 2005 - there were eight so somewhere, someone thought women were less likely to convict based on what? Buying into the arrested development pitch? Feeling maternal to a little boy lost? aged 47 That still surprises me as one could have gone the other way: that mothers themselves would have been more likely to convict. Huge caveat there being I do not know how many of the jurors were parents.

I watched the first part last night and god it has really affected me. How anyone can watch those testimonies and not believe them is unthinkable to me. I keep thinking of that bit where one of them said he and Michael couldn't hold hands in public but would kind of scratch eachother's palm with their finger, it was such a small detail but you could so imagine it, the little secret, how in awe and enamoured by him they were, how he isolated them, they loved him! Ugh it is so complex and I've never seen grooming explained and laid so bare before and I feel like I understand it so much more.

It's terrible and I was a massive mj fan as a child, had all the posters, my mum took me and my cousin to see the history tour, I was obsessed. I could even sympathise a little with the parents for being so taken in by him, he was a mega star.

ozzy

www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/underwear-rule/

The NSPCC have a Pants campaign with Pantosaurus and a parents' guide. And a song sung by a Yorkshireman about saying no if someone asks to see your pants
They mean well but I am not sure it would work on my DD who is a similar age, I guess it is for much younger children. Also - it is a clear message - but rather like stranger danger, tends towards the weirdo asking to see your knickers as opposed to the family friend/relative/teacher/vicar/scout leader who you already know who is grooming you. Fair play to them though for having children's guides to download and for having guides for SN/children with ASD.
The poster on the teachers' resources is a good visual to print out.
learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/schools/pants-teaching/

www.amazon.co.uk/Body-What-Say-Goes-surprises/dp/1925089266/ref=pd_sbs_14_2/260-3887889-7147108?psc=1&pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-bb40-d725dd59d1d3&_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_wg=wQZjp&pf_rd_r=V0N1K1R0CCHX6R8WKX5E&pd_rd_i=1925089266&pd_rd_w=WIkTE&tag=mumsnetforum-21&refRID=V0N1K1R0CCHX6R8WKX5E&pd_rd_r=3a9e4bb3-4275-11e9-aaff-27d05f5ca95c

What the hell is wrong with these parents. If an unmarried ifeminate man wanted to sleep with my son in his bed I'd go ballistic, I don't care who he is or how rich he is.
Ditto any other man wanting to get that close to my young child, it simply would never happen, ever.