Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

irkanta - Just because someone says something doesn't make it a truth.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

"I don't want to portray people coming out as child abuse victims as something we should just turn our noses up at - it is a very, very serious allegation. But for that reason, surely then we should look at all the facts and the evidence that surrounds the allegations BEFORE we make up our minds."

"In all honesty, I think the key thing it's doing is using the #MeToo movement as a kind of springboard to help get it aired, to make it feel genuine.

"We're currently in a world where a very important movement has uncovered so many disgusting things that have happened, but it has now got to a stage where it's as though we should just believe what everybody says without checking the facts."

"That's not coming from somebody who's a die-hard fan, that's coming from somebody as a neutral going in, who's looked at all of the evidence - and there is a huge body of it, factual evidence, not just claims.

"These guys both had four court cases thrown out prior to this. They've been trying to pitch this story since 2013. We're ignoring all the evidence and taking their claims at face value.

"I was speaking on the radio yesterday about it, and somebody said, 'You haven't looked in their eyes.' Well, I've also watched a lot of Hollywood movies where actors have been extremely convincing. At the end of the day, Christian Bale once said he was Batman, but I don't believe he was Batman."

"But there is nothing out there, there is no shred of evidence. Yet, there is so much factual evidence debunking what's being said in the documentary."

Knowing that if there MJ relationship stops then her money will stop flowing. And that's why Jimmy Saville's sister did nothing when her own daughter disclosed to her against him. Because he had bought her a home, and holidays and she didn't want it to stop.

It's amazing what people will over look for money!

Whatever the facts are the botto line is don't have young children into your bed/home as a single man (or woman) alone. I know Ghandi used to sleep with young virgins to prove ijhs ability to resist temptation but it is very very wise. The stories are very credible to me and MJ was an utter weirdo. He would have been better living with his extended famliy who could have put paid to all that nonsense of having little boys around him at exactly the age most men who like children tend to want young boys.

As he's dead now that's it whatever you believe but never do let your child alone like that even if it's with what you think is a well liked family friend or your new boyfriend.

Also always wanrn them not just about stranger danger but about what actoins aren ot okay. I remember to this day my mother telling us as small children in the 1960s what not to allow and not just - no going off with strangers even if they offer you sweets.

ccmrob
You really need to provide sources for quotes, even those you subscribe to. You are quoting there Robin Parsons, an MJ tribute act from Essex.

www.ladbible.com/news/music-this-is-what-a-michael-jackson-tribute-has-had-to-deal-with-this-week-20190308

Which is fine - your prerogative. But sources help verify nuance and bias. A tribute act has skin in the game.
Plus if there is the huge body of evidence he refers to find it, link it, otherwise it's just an opinion piece.

Father of the nation xenia? Yes, his brahmachari experiments could be seen as dodgy as Jackson's sleepovers.
www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-45469129
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/01/gandhi-celibacy-test-naked-women
Historian Kusoom Vadgama also said that Gandhi was accused of sexual abuse of his grandnieces and psychological abuse of his wife.

I actually think stranger danger (i was taught about that in the 1980s) deflects from the issue and avoids the fact that the vast majority of child abuse is carried out by someone known to a child. Mj wasnt a stranger as such to these boys as on first meeting they would have already known who he was and then by ingratiating himself with their family he became like family himself and therefore almost beyond reproach.

On the subject of having the discussion with children about the dangers of sexual abuse, does anyone have any decent resources they can point me towards? My oldest is 7 and though we have had the chat about " private areas" etc , this documentary has made me want to have this chat again.

Howl, I don't idolise MJ. Yes I am a big fan of his music, yes I have seen him live and he was brilliant but I am not certain he is guilty. Nor am I certain he is not guilty. Not one poster on here knows for sure whether he is guilty or not even though they keep pretending they do.

I think there are reasons he may be guilty but also reasons he may not.

I will certainly still play his music as, I would think, will most people that like him. Certainly the almost 100% acceptance on here that he is guilty is not seen anywhere else. Look at other forums, look at facebook posts about him and God have there been tons. The non guilty far outweighs the guilty. His record sales have gone up

MJ fanatics organise 'raids' on forums and YouTube comments to drown out any other voices. The majority of responses you see are from MJ fanatics and not your average person.

A huge amount are from people who aren't MJ fans. Now I know there are fanatics (incredibly obsessed) out there (on both sides, tbf) who are ranting but I've seen that largely limited to MJ pages and groups on FB. Most of what I have seen is fairly relaxed. But there are people going nuts with MJ defences, just as there are many 'believers' (which is a horrible term be using) being vile to people who don't believe, insulting and attacking them.

mydog you are correct in that. Here its all certainties and anything but means there's something wrong with you

I've struggled to find responses on Reddit, YouTube, Digital spy(Several were deleted the other day) that are more balanced because of the constant spamming of MJ fans.Many of them were posting the exact same thing. I can't speak for FB though as I don't use it.

Pickled - they are frothing all over the place. FB news feeds are full of them. Gets really tiresome reading the diatribe that gets banded about.

I've been in quite a few fan bases and while there are a lot of crazy people in all of he, ive never seen any fandom that compares to the MJ fandom. It is genuinely cultlike. The Great Leader can do no wrong. It's incredibly disturbing.

I have read comments on youtube videos of MJ from the cult declaring that MJ has never EVER had plastic surgery.
Utter batshit!

What “evidence” are people looking for? What would ever be enough for the MJ fanatics to realise the truth about their idol?

Also, the testimony of victims IS evidence.

I thought that would be the case HowlsMovingBungalow but I didn't think it fair to assume that they'd swamped FB too, even though I'd have been amazed if they didn't.

stranger danger campaign did harm actually because children are most likely to be abused by someone they know who doesn't present as a monster.

It beggars belief that people aren't getting this.
It's likely to be someone you know and you trust who could be abusing your child.

you this is what I don't understand either.. what more evidence do people want! You've got the whole dam picture!!
Including testimonials of pants everywhere... vaseline... payoff ... threats of death to powerless poor worker s...as well as endless parade of kid's...

You'd look at his reading material, his art work, his songs, his artifacts... his chosen companions and the very Very theme of his fantasy home.

What's Michael Jackson's obsession and passion?

Golf? Fast cars? Fine wine?

No!! It's little boys

I completely believe James and Wade, and I'm pleased for them that they are silent no more. Hope they will be OK now.

I also find myself hoping Paris, Prince and Blanket are OK. Don't know how they will process this and I wonder if on some level they will take their testimonies on board.

Yup Buds.

And nerf guns, water ballons and messy pie 'fights'.

All standard adult interests.

ccmrom sorry, not quite with you.

I totally believe that MJ was a paedophile. No doubt about that. And I agree that his victims as kids, didn't think he was doing anything wrong. Hence it didn't occur to them to take him to the authorities.

HOWEVER, I also think it was wrong of Wade, Jimmy and their families to accept money and other gifts as adults, and testify for MJ in court and them come out and talk about the sexual abuse when he's no longer able to defend himself. They are not entirely blameless either imo. Fair enough when they were kids and groomed within an inch of their lives by that awful man but to do so again as adults? Surely they knew better when they were older (early 20s if im correct)r. Yet they accepted money again to testify for him.