Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

buds MJ used to send faxes

And triptrap one of the MJ security guards did an article where he said one of MJ's kids accidentally pushed the panic button so security entered.

According to MJ he was just having breakfast with his kids but the security guard got a massive telling off for disturbing them.
It was told more as an amusing antedote and this security guard was hired towards the end of MJ's life.

This was a different alarm system to the one MJ had that was mentioned in the doc.

Thank you @Ministerforcheekyfuckery.

I have appreciated your professional input and views on this thread.

I had a lot of insight into how paedophiles groom and the standard behaviour of them when I dealt with CID officers during my own court case ( as I said 20 yrs ago now) I speak from a personal and yes, probably emotive place - I am not going to apologise for that, not a fucking chance.EVER.

Idolising anyone is a big mistake.

tea I'm aware he has quite the pr staff, they would be quite a neccessity! However, it isn't only based on pr. Everyone has their own little psychologies. There are a lot of things sensationalised, there are always things that don't match up. Even some stuff created to defend Michael actually contains things that actually do the opposite. None of it is straightforward without real firm proof. When something is really important to you you often look at things from as many perspectives as you can, and often be left with no clear conclusion.

I won't stand for being accused of things that I am not on these threads, nor will I leave them. I am more than happy to see the reasoned posts, point out things that people aren't aware of that could provide an alternatice to their thinking. In fact, the poster I've most respected on these threads is one who believes MJ is guilty but her posts have been reasoned and she's also posted about the credibility of some people etc and shown facts and information in relation to things that are a bit dodgy.

Maybe people should stop with the abuse towards those with differing opinions? That's all I want.

As for my friends collection, it appears that would be going up in value right now. MJs music is seriously trending, even with people who weren't fans before!! So my collection is increasing in value to it seems. BUT, and this is unlike my friend who would just hide herself from the world incase anybody said anything to her (!) IF I ever do come to the full on conclusion that Michael is guilty while I would still listen to his music (the music isn't the person) I would sell my collection and the money would go to help kids. Likewise when he died, the money I had spent on VIP tickets was donated. I am just as uncomfortable with people who make it all about themselves, how they would emotionally feel and worrying about what others think about them as I am about those who throw accusations at myself and others on here.

So how about a little respect to actually discuss things if we want to?

James Safechuck really resonated with me, his eyes said a lot but were equally dead with the pain of trauma. It was textbook to me too.

God yes. You can absolutely see that James Safechuck is a human being that has been completely smashed apart. He particularly hit me right in the heart too.

triptrap sorry but I don't think I have disrespected you or anyone on this thread.

tea not you :) but a lot of people on these threads (there's more than one on the subject) are calling anyone who says anything other than 'I believe' paedophile sympathisers, enablers and apologisers.

The other day I was at my friends house, another MJ fan, and we were talking about it (she is avoiding everything and terrified about people having a go at her for being a fan or her collection devaluing)

Heaven forbid her collection being devalued. For fucks sake, listen to yourself.

Madge prime example there. Maybe read what I wrote. Her concerns are not my concerns. I find concerns like that bizarre. People need to stop putting us all in the same basket

James safechuck looked absolutely broken. As I am sure Wade is / was but somehow seems further along the road to healing, if that’s possible. I actually thought James S looked on the verge of being suicidal. I hope that making the film helps him in some way and doesn’t push him over the edge.

I can't believe MJ still has hard core fans. That's what I find unbelievable! I never knew how many MNetters were hiding such secrets! Wow.
I really don't know how MJ got off of the child abuse claims, but then again the amount of rapist that walk the earth, the amount of parents who neglect their kids until they kill them etc I shouldn't be surprised. Especially if you can afford the best lawyers in the world.

when they victim-blame and try and find inconsistencies in the men's stories

The two are not the same.
You can feel sorry for the victims whilst also feeling sorry for Michael's kids.
You can feel sorry for Wade and James whilst also feeling sorry for Mac and Brett.
You can feel sorry for Wade and James whilst also feeling sorry for Jordy and Gavin who inadvertently got thrown under the bus.

Pursuit of truth is not silencing victims and pointing out discrepancies is not victim-blaming. There are discrepancies - see Charles Thomson's statement (journalist)

www.reddit.com/r/MichaelJackson/comments/ay42cx/a_condensed_version_of_the_major_credibility/

(I am not a Jackson fan to be clear but trial by media in the court of public opinion sets back the legal process in all cases, not just this one)

So what are the credentials of the journalist you cite Rage?

Genuine question.

Equally what is their evidence?

The reddit thread you point to is heavy on "fact" but light on evidence.

Very fair question, especially as I first dismissed him as a tabloid hack.
He has written two biographies of Jackson and for various publications.
His wiki page is here - it needs moderating but looking at the talk history, one random ain't happy.

The Michael Jackson section is interesting though and clearly he is pro-Jackson but I don't think he is wrong about media reporting.

He wrote this about media bias. I find it interesting only because someone the second thread copied and pasted Gene Simmons' comments without fact-checking first.

www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-thomson/michael-jackson-its-time_b_482176.html

Although Thomson is pro-Jackson (I'm not) so may be close to the subject he really isn't wrong about how the media work back then or now.
www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-thomson/one-of-the-most-shameful_b_610258.html

I went onto his facebook and there are apparent screenshots of court transcript to back up his statement. He seems to have done the legwork.

Feel free to refute, undermine his credentials or tell me the screenshots are falsified - I am happy to be corrected and will ask MN to delete any link that is shown to be libellous.

oops, hang on

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Thomson_(journalist)

www.facebook.com/CharlesThomsonJournalist/posts/10156642832831998

What is coming across to me really strongly about all this is how cult-like the defence of MJ is. He is portrayed as uniquely special, almost Christ-like (and yes, who can forget the performance that Jarvis Cocker disrupted). He can do no wrong for these people, and they contort themselves to overlook and excuse very basic red flags.

He groomed many more people than his immediate victims.

sorry, contributed to two biographies - Vogel/Sullivan

I always remembered Jarvis as full-on mooning but it appears he just wiggled his bum a bit

Tis 5 mins in for any Jarvis fans (can't decide what I like best, the wafting or the lifting up of his top)

www.radiox.co.uk/artists/pulp/news/why-did-jarvis-cocker-moon-michael-jackson-brits/

You can feel sorry for the victims whilst also feeling sorry for Michael's kids.

Yes absolutely. I do keep wondering about Paris, Prince and Blanket - hope they're OK. I would hope there is a way they can take on board the truths in this documentary and process it. They are so young and I can understand if they don't want to go there in their minds, and dismiss this documentary outright.

Despite there apparently being no money making behind Leaving Neverland, it is set to be released on DVD and Blu Ray on 22nd April.

Bit of an unusual thing to put on DVD

Just to add to that it is being distributed by Spirit Entertainment, A UK company.

Being available for pre-order already and with a release date just over a month away, it must've been in the pipeline for a while

Interesting that Brett and Macurley deny anything happened to them though. FFs, I cannot roll my eyes loud enough at this comment!!

it's not interesting ffs. Abusers do not abuse all children they come across. I was abused by a family friend, my siblings were not. My niece was abused by her father, her siblings were not.

It's not one size fits all, and it is perfectly possible that he never laid a finger on Macaulay Culkin

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine
Thank you so much for posting link and detailing what was in first 20min. Just getting back to thread now. She was fine yesterday and we did use it to reinforce messages they've been learning at school about boundaries consent and personal space

You are welcome dulra - I am very glad that your daughter is okay and I could put your mind at rest. I think it's a very important conversation - especially about the myths surrounding abuse (some of which have been prevalent/perpetuated across both threads).
The best way of safeguarding is to do what you've done - my kids know only they have the ownership of their bodies and can say no to anyone (including me angling for a hug if they don't want one!)
Have a good weekend.