Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

I read a spot on description of never land.

The witches cottage in handsel and Gretel.

I'm okay, well getting there. I absolutely believe those men. I understand why it was so hard for them to see the truth. It fucks with your head, you learn unhealthy boundaries, you love and want the approval of your abuser.

Im also very sorry that that was done to you yellow. I hope you are in a good as place as possible with recovering from it.

I believe them.

So sorry yellow. The world is a fucked up place sometimes.

I’m so sorry yellow

yellow

Thank you all

I didn't mean to derail the thread, I want to make the point that their denial of the abuse and continued loyalty to the abuser makes total sense. The thing about CPTSD is that it occurs when children are abused at a young age AND their parents do not respond as parents should. It brews the perfect storm of CPTSD and their behaviour totally fits with how people with CPTSD cope with that trauma.

Kids don't process trauma like adults, they lack the life skills to know how. I have memories put away in 'boxes' that I could remember if I want to. I don't, I don't want to remember those things. Sometimes boxes open by themselves though especially if something triggers them.

Theyellow. I also have CPTSD.

I get tired of explaining what childhood abuse does to your core being.

You're not derailing, you're proving how wrong the odd MJ defender on this thread is when they victim-blame and try and find inconsistentcies in the men's stories. Thankfully, they are vastly in the minority.

It's not derailing at all. What you say makes total sense, a child not having the intellectual or emotional capability to process abuse, so it gets locked away only for it to force its way back into your consciousness in adulthood. Just like with Wade and Jimmy. I believe them.

How on earth could you not believe them watching that and having even the slightest empathy and understanding as to the mental affects of early abuse? Some of the deniers are so black and white and frankly thick. How can you read yellows post and say “what is the other side” and “why speak up now” I despair no wonder survivors keep quiet

I like to add that my abuser kept pornography in my bedroom and I was told not to go into 'that' drawer - what did I do?

I was also told if anyone found out about 'us' - no-one would understand the 'love' and I would be taken away and jailed.

Paedophiles are cut from the same cloth.

Regardless of money or fame.

@HowlsMovingBungalow so sorry

It's such a conflict, after an extremely lonely life of feeling so different I finally have found there are 'people like me'. That's amazing! It also means that someone else has had to deal with the same sort of shit that I did, at such a young age and without proper parental support. That bit breaks my heart

The men in that film are almost textbook CPTSD especially them defending in, even as adults

*him not in

It’s just so sad to watch and to think
About. To go through this as a
CHILD and then have people constantly nit pick about Inconsistencies and say that it’s all about greed and making money is just too awful. People like yellow on this thread show just how complex and terrible these things are. Those poor men, or boys as they were

Howismovingbungalow

So sorry to hear that.

I just can't believe all the circumstantial evidence is not credible to people:

The creepy interview in the jet grooming a boy,
the creepy interview with detectives not answering if he knew J chandler,
the jewellery,
the faxes,
Neverland set up,
boys sleeping in his bedroom FFS.
Playing it like he is a little boy.

So we have 4 or 5 accusers now.

What more do people want?

Dirty Diana and chasing the women from the way you make you feel - sure must be seen in a different light now.

You are not alone @Theyellowsquare - far from it there are thousands of us, survivors x

James Safechuck really resonated with me, his eyes said a lot but were equally dead with the pain of trauma. It was textbook to me too.

I guess only people who have been through the utter horror of childhood sexual abuse truly get it - very depressing to realise this ( 20 yrs after my own court case) You never fucking get over it, it damages your core and thinking ( your brain too ).

Fuck the non believers of abuse victims.

tea a panic button wouldn't do me,I habe to say. By the time you need to use that you're already in trouble. However, if it is actually true that the boys were trained to get dressed quickly for distasteful reasons (for want of a better phrase) then indeed there is something very wrong there. I am aware of that.

I will always listen to both sides, and my mind is my own to make up, as is everyone elses. But I'd much rather others were similar and weren't calling people of differing opinions names (on both sides) and making ridiculous assumptions on various things.

I still err on the innocent side, being someone who idolised Michael,someone who had abusive parents and upbringing who was kept sane with music and seeing someone who had been abused, physically and mentally, including on appearance I was, showing the world their amazing talent and having the world love them (because you do think nobody would love you) it would really break me if he was guilty, but it also gives you a desire to know the truth, for obvious reasons. I've read and watched for years and my conclusions are based on those years, but I am fully aware there is the possibility. Some won't even admit that and I think people who don't even question don't really have a right to be making statements!

One of the biggest problems right now is the hysteria and people looking at things that are in some way normal, totally not related or something anyone should expect (and ffs any MJ fans out there who thought that Michael always spoke in a high voice really aren't fans, if they were they'd know damn well that wasn't the case. Its no big shock or a big secret. Use your brains, watch some videos!!!). People are suddenly turning those things to fit their views and that's where things become dangerous.

The other day I was at my friends house, another MJ fan, and we were talking about it (she is avoiding everything and terrified about people having a go at her for being a fan or her collection devaluing) and I was questionning and wondering and at that time I was sat holding the full cover for the Dangerous album. Looking down at that cover with questions and doubts made me realise the cover could be interpretted in a negative way against Michael and everything. I was stunned,felt sick and had a tear in my eye. But then it was like 'well Michael didn't make the cover, what was the brief for the artist etc' so we looked. The thing with art and many other things, including things people say and do are all open to varying interpretations. Once you have a certain idea in your mind you can start to 'see' and fit other things to fit it,even if totally incorrect. And that is happening quite a bit.

But that also goes with people deciding how victims act ie commenting on the emotion or lack of. That isn't logic speaking, its another case of just ignoring everything and only seeing what fits. It is happening on both sides.

Howl and yellow
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. It can't have been easy for either of you reading some of the insensitivity on this thread.

I get tired of explaining what childhood abuse does to your core being

I get so angry when the young people I work with are frequently described as "not credible" by professionals within the Justice System or Social Care because their lifestyles are "chaotic", because their behaviour is "erratic" or they self-medicate with drugs and alcohol. I'm like "yes, that's because they're fucking traumatised!! Maybe if they were heard and believed they might actually be able to recover!"
Some people will never get it, sadly.

Can someone tell me what these...

Taxes...are please

@Budsbegginingspringinsight I'm assuming wrong thread

I just watched the second final part. It is very likely that what they say is true and it is good they felt able to disclose it. It is similar for women who have suffered abuse too - sometimes they don't even want to admit it ia abuse and even if they know they can find the balance in not telling anyone or even denying it can be easier than the difficulties of disclosing it.

They are very brave to disclose it and do it so very well.

I am glad they both were able to marry, seem to have lovely wives and have a child/children.

Amongst many good points made was the one about one of them being told not to bother with school and exams - that is also pretty typic of those who want to exploit others and make them depend on them.

It doesn't much matter that a lot of fans don't want to believe it and never will. Hopefully people will stop being star struck the next time someone famous wants to sleep alone with their small child or a neigbour or family friend or scout master or whoever seems to be showing an unusual interest in one child.

triptrap you say:

I've read and watched for years and my conclusions are based on those years, but I am fully aware there is the possibility.

I hope with the times up movt is that the victims get to have a say in the narrative of they want to.

MJ has quite the PR staff, he got to spin the narrative and this isn't a case of weighing up equal sides.

You don't often hear of child abuse victims because they are children and their confidentiality is preserved. They are CHILDREN. CHILDREN should not have to put up or endure abuse.

Children are not typically powerful they are vulnerable and look at MJ's relationships with young boys.

Remember how after the Bashir documentary MJ got to play the "poor me I trusted Bashir".

Times up on MJ - he is dead ofcourse but we don't have to listen to his music we don't have to make his estate richer.

We, the public can vote on this.

I consider your friend's collection worthless utterly worthless.

triptrap sorry to hear of your abuse also.