Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

You sure are Captain and looking mighty fine I must say (I may have had a childhood crush on Kirk )

I am still sitting on the fence I've now got splinters but I know i am not going by a one sided channel 4 documentary to say yes he's guilty would of loved to hear the other side it's one of those things we will never know

But dragon we do know.

We know what he would say...he loves children, he wouldn't Hurt them ..

Almost true...

dragonfly I don't know if you know but chandler's dad killed himself but I wasn't actually talking about the motivation of the abused boy's family.

I was pondering the motivation of MJ to settle for such a huge massive amount.

A court case would not have cost MJ 20 odd million in fees. Avoiding a prison sentence may have been MJ's motivation.

I don't see what the 'other side' could be- this is several hours of exceptionally compelling testimony which is very believable from two real-life people who were well documented to be in his life (nobody disputes that Wade spent a year of nights in his bed for example). Three more hours of other children saying well I wasn't a victim or staff saying I didn't see anything can't actually take away their testimony or provide any balance. The photos and videos of them together are there, the inappropriate behaviour, the faxes, the jewellery, the parents who left them there, the far away bedrooms, the sleeping in the same bed. This is not actually disputable, what is disputable is whether he then had sexual contact with the boys in the bed, not that there were boys in the bed. How could there be another opinion on that? Perhaps he didn't abuse all the boys he befriended? But surely two, who give very compelling evidence (watch it if you are in any doubt) is enough?

@Budsbegginingspringinsight
Most deffo that's what he would say it would be good to hear from the Jackson camp the only bit in it although she wasn't privy to the conversation was Jackson's PA called wade up and said Michael wants to see you re the underwear did he she remember making that call to wade?? oh I don't know Corey Feldman said he finds it hard to defend him although he's adamant nothing went on still with him I mean

Sorry but as to the alarm system I understand he had a panic alarm that alerted his security detail with panic buttons etc - totally understand that.

The particular alarm which I understood which was highly strange was a softer alarm to alert MJ that someone within the house was coming down the hallway, like a bell and that the children practiced getting changed quickly and silently. It gave MJ time to clean up his act.

Again I think the way hotel rooms for parents moved further and further away from the hotel room that MJ and the boy had was highly unusual - how can that be explained?

I think it 4 children now overall isn't it?

Possibly 5. I will check that.

Yes 2 went a court route.

@teatimez but they still took the money ... that's peanuts for that weirdo ! Yes I read the dad committed suicide was that the boy who basically divorced his parents the first case

I was a fan but watching this I'm in no doubt that those two men are telling the truth.

he told the boys other people in society won't understand... they're stupid

Yes, that’s what people like him do. They tell you it’s love, no one else could possibly understand, they’re in a loving consensual relationship that everyone will think its wrong but it’s not, you can’t help who you love and they’re in love. It’s all part of the grooming process to hook them, alienate them and make them feel like they were complicit, so that when it comes to it they can’t tell anybody.

I know it’s horrifying. It’s literally unbelievable and if you haven’t seen it or experienced it, it’s unfavomable but it’s textbook behaviour from a person like Jackson.

dragonfly taking money does not mean MJ was Not guilty.

I have some more questions (sorry)

1. Honestly why would MJ settle for such a huge amount if he was innocent?

1. Why did MJ need other children he had been in the bedroom with to testify? Why would he put pressure on those children/young adults?

There is no way the court case would have come to 22 million or whatever the figure was. I truly don't get arguments against the parents or abusers.

Surely the way the parents acted meant that they made it clear to MJ the predator that their children were fairgame.

1. Surely he targeted the children and families precisely because of the differential in power or because the parents were neglectful? Isn't that was predators do?

1. Also for example if Wade held back from talking about abuse, or lied on the stand, because of his self interest in his career then why the hell not?

1. If Wade had been abused for 7 years and then managed to have a career in dance etc then why should he have risked his career being destroyed?

1. Why is it not hard for people to realise that trauma such as this may take decades to be spoken about?

1. Why is it hard for people to believe that a 7 year old may believe that a 30 plus adult who was his teacher, father figure, friend and abuser and who shared his bed was everything to him and that they had a bond and that the kid believed the predator ?

As to the number of boys I think it could Increase.

I thought La toya had said MJ had last form with paying off boys.

@teatimez but equally there's no price when your child has been abused surely you make sure you go to criminal court for justice they would of earned money after the case in interviews anyway Jackson's lawyers should not of gone down the money route and if Jackson's was as innocent as he thought he was he should of insisted a trial as well to be fair blame on both sides

Yes for normal well adjusted parents there is no price worth it.

But can you not see that the mothers in this documentary were just not your usual normal caring parents.

The mother of James said it was bad timing when reflecting back after one court case and realising MJ paid for a house or mortgage?? A normal mother would find it abhorrent to take money from a man who shared a bedroom with her son.

What about wade's mum how she relayed something along the lines of "you can't have Wade I can share him with you MJ but you can't have him?" How about MJ funding her US visa?

Again what kind of parent would say such a thing about their child being shared??

You would not be surprised with such a parent then taking money from MJ would you?

Dragonflyinn10 - me neither. I, as most others would do, would go after justice no matter what. I would not be paid off at all. I wouldn’t let my kids stay over either, whoever it was. I’m also not agreeing it was normal do let boys sleep with a man, but that doesn’t mean I thought be abused them. Don’t get the two things confused.

For those bothered to look, the answers are out there as to why he made the settlement in the civil case. It was because there was the civil case and the criminal case and he paid to settle the civil case and focus on the criminal one to clear his name. He was also in the middle of his dangerous tour and to cancel that to defend the civil case would have cost many more millions. But don’t that ruin your arguement or let the facts get in the way.

Despite the payment to the chandler family they were free to give evidence in the 1993 case but didn’t as they ran off with their settlement. Wonder why?

Don’t get me started on Latoya, she had the story but guess what wanted money to tell all who later said he husband made her do it. Money makes people do horrible things. There is one common theme with all these cases $$$$$$$$$$

Despite the payment to the chandler family they were free to give evidence in the 1993 case but didn’t as they ran off with their settlement. Wonder why?

Well I guess we can only wonder.

As part of the settlement it would have been usual to have a no disparagement and confidentially non disclosure clause.

MJ pays the money and get to not admit liability and gets out of a court case - Parents get the money but are not ever allowed to disparage MJ. Who knows?

We don't really know if they "ran off" with a settlement. We don't know how good and what legal advice they got? Be interesting to find out if MJ paid all costs?

I think it is relevant to bring up the Catholic Church here who were absolute top notch experts at getting abuse victims and their parents to sign away their rights and limit their liability. NO ONE would blame parents in such a situation would they????

Teatime. if you've seen abducted in plain site , there's a conversation ( real, taped) where the abducter and mum chat about child as though they are the parents

Just accept the fact you have your opinion and I have mine. At least I have gone to effort of researching it before making my mind up.
Said every Flat Earth/ Moon landing hoax/ antivaxx/ Illuminati conspiracy nut job on the Internet.

bugs good point I think you said that all more succinctly than me

I totally get where they are coming from. Sadly through experience (not MJ obviously).

Abuse in early years means you don't 'get' what's happening. It was only in my late thirties (and when prompted by therapy) that I looked at my memories through adult eyes and was truly horrified by what I saw. I didn't see it as abuse, even though I had full sex with two males before the age of 9. Google CPTSD. I cried when I read about it as my life and myself suddenly made sense for the first time.

Christ, I'm so sorry you went through that, @Theyellowsquare. Utterly horrifying.

Ccmcrob
You say

"Money makes people do horrible things. There is one common theme with all these cases $$$$$$$$$$"

I agree about the money.

Along with money being a theme I would say that abuse of boys is the main theme here.

Look at Michael Jackson and all his money:

Building neverland, paying for children and their families to fly around the world and using his money to separate families.

Imagine what kind of agreement MJ's staff had to sign?

Imagine being so powerful you could invite gang members into Neverland to intimidate staff?

Imagine having multiple homes that you flit to at short notice?

Imagine being so rich you can strip your own biological children of their biological mother's parental rights and then that Mother having to go to court to try get some parental rights back?

Imagine being so rich you can use lawyers when you want?

Imagine being so rich you can ring young boys and spend hours on the phone to them?

Imagine being so rich that others want your wealth and will do what they can to protect your reputation?

Look at all that circumstantial evidence?

Look at someone clever and talented enough to get massively rich but also so very talented as a performer that he convinces people that he is innocent and he is able to be a position at night alone all night with a young boy.

Look at all the circumstantial evidence don't you find it a tremendous amount of circumstantial evidence?

so so sorry too you went through that, @Theyellowsquare.

Sickening..