Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Telly addicts

Related: Film discussion forum.

Original poster

Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

999 replies

SachaStark · 06/03/2019 15:51

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

OP posts:
shinyNewPound · 08/03/2019 17:36

I am livid. I loved him. He's a fucking pied piper.

Smoggle · 08/03/2019 17:44

Those who think he's innocent - why was he only sleeping with 10 year old boys? Why was he swapping his special friend when they got too old?

If it was truly that he just liked children, why isn't he having sleepovers with 5 year old girls or 15 year olds - why the very specific type of friend?

MumUndone · 08/03/2019 17:46

My 5 year old loves Michael Jackson songs, I feel that I should stop him listening to them. Absolutely no doubt in my mind that MJ is a pedophile.

MamaLovesMango · 08/03/2019 17:49

I don't think he thought he was hurting them.

Oh please 🙄 he knew had physically hurt them at the very least and he knew it was wrong (keeping it a secret, the alarms, the drills in quick dressing remember?!).

The lovebombing
The casting them off when things didn’t go his way
The getting angry when he couldn’t control them
The flattery of the family and then alienating the victim from them

It’s all in grooming 101.

ccmrob12 · 08/03/2019 17:51

lunicorn - Yes I do happen to think he is innocent and no I don't think he had sex with the children.

I haven't thrown any insults in this thread, the insults have come from those thinking he is guilty. Calling people paedophile apologisers for seeking the truth for starters. I think I've said about a much as I can on this, people are clearly going to think what they want based on this one-sided and emotionally driven 'documentary'. I say it like that as it's not sought facts like most normal documentaries and/or balanced views, it's simply assassination.

For anyone who is interested in opening their mind slightly, the facts are there for people to see if they choose to instead of jumping to the conclusion he abused these boys because they say so. If you want to remain close minded and pre-judiced then keep seeing what you want to see.

Facts don't lie, people do!!!

ccmrob12 · 08/03/2019 17:53

Smoggle - I have posted about the 18 year old AIDs victim who had did the same with pre 1993, I have mentioned it several times now. Go back and check for yourself. People don't want to see what is in front of them.

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 08/03/2019 17:53

Smoggle 15 year olds are often much more grown up with their own lives, independance and chasing girls ;) Possible reason.

Why not girls? There were no girls in the lost boys. Its not uncommon for boys to hang around with boys and girls with girls, less so these days admittedly, but still. A lot of people don't allow mixed sex sleepovers either.

So those are possible explanations. Who knows!

But also remember his porn was heterosexual.

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 08/03/2019 18:00

@ccmrob that really got me. And is part of the reason I mentioned the hysteria (coupled with the slurrs made against people who believe MJ, the Macauley accusations, some MJ fans going nuts on social media -I am an MJ fan, I don't ever want to be placed in the same group as them, some are seriously out of line and I almost feel I should apologise for their behaviour!!).

You posted a video of a woman who told about the nice things Michael done for her adult son. Buying a car, making a video for him when he passed away etc etc. All very tangible things. The response was 'that woman has been seriously groomed'. Really?How the hell anyone could draw that conclusion I don't know. She wasn't even there saying Michael didn't ever abuse anyone. She was there saying her experience of Micharl and what he done for her adult son who had AIDS. And that somehow means she was groomed? That is just hysteria

DeloresJaneUmbridge · 08/03/2019 18:03

So you’d have happily allowed a child of yours to share his bed then cmrob?

That’s what you’re saying here. He’s innocent and the children lied.

Interesting.

Hope you are not a parent or involved in any way with safeguarding children.

lunicorn · 08/03/2019 18:09

Ccmrob. He had these sleepovers for many, many, many nights over 30ish years. What do you think happened each night?

Backseatonthebus · 08/03/2019 18:11

Facts don't lie, people do!!!

That's the only think you've written cmrob that I actually agree with. Frankly I am astonished that anyone could now (if they ever were) be in any doubt that Michael Jackson was a serial abuser. He did this in plain sight of the world, his fame made it easy for him to do, his money made it easy to suppress the truth and perpetuate the lie of being a kind, gentle child-like man. Actually he was a calculating manipulative abuser. I'm glad the truth is out now, and I bet more men will begin to speak out now these two brave men have done so. Just like Saville.

teatimez · 08/03/2019 18:11

Facts don't lie people do...
Is that really the best slogan the MJ estate and family can come up with. What a load of bull.AngryAngryAngry

As one of the jury members stated it is very hard to believe MJ was in bed with all these children and just having popcorn and playing games 365 nights a year or words to that effect.

FFS if it was just innocent playing - which is bizarre in itself why did it need to take place at night in his bedroom or hotel room?

Why were no other adults with the children?

I too hope that anyone defending MJ have nothing to do with children or vulnerable adults.

There is so much circumstantial evidence.

We have a powerful predator who preyed on victims and groomed them and their families.

If MJ paid the Chandler family over 20 million then what does that say? What does that say?

calpop · 08/03/2019 18:14

ccmrob you're deluded and I really hope you don't have any responsibility for any children.

All the ridiculous "evidence" you come up with is laughable. He helped an 18 year old so that means he didn't rape anybody. The 18 year old's mother liked him. So did the 2 mothers in the documentary until they realised what he had done to their sons! Nobody is entirely good or entirely bad and abuse isn't always violent rape by shadowy, evil figures. Which is exactly the point the film was making.

You really should think about why you are so happy to defend someone who was so clearly an abuser because, what, you like some pop songs he wrote?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/03/2019 18:15

lot of people don't allow mixed sex sleepovers either

Alot fo people don't allow 10 year olds to sleep with adults either.....

The thing is, it didn't have to be every child, or every night.

teatimez · 08/03/2019 18:17

ccmcrob yes please answer - what do you think MJ was doing all those nights he had children sleeping in his room with him?

Please tell me what you think he was doing with young vulnerable boys night after night after night?

Why do you think he invited young boys on tour with him and shared bedrooms with them?

Why do you think he needed an alarm system to alert him to anyone coming into the bedroom that he shared with young vulnerable boys? I mean isn't that astounding?

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 08/03/2019 18:18

I agree with that Captain (and your name just made me laugh as just switched channels and Kirks face appears just as your post did 😂 )

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/03/2019 18:19

Yes, I'm on the horror channel right now.Grin

Budsbegginingspringinsight · 08/03/2019 18:19

Mama you've mis understood my post.
I'm not saying he was a child like man with comprehension of baby who didn't know it was bad.

But I do feel he couldn't see what was wrong with it, he told the boys other people in society won't understand... they're stupid Etc...

Backseatonthebus · 08/03/2019 18:20

And why was it only boys who shared his bed? And only boys of a certain age range? I'd love to know the excuses for that.

PuddingsAreMyJam · 08/03/2019 18:20

All the ridiculous "evidence" you come up with is laughable. He helped an 18 year old so that means he didn't rape anybody

Exactly. Sorry to bring it back to this but Jimmy Saville also did a lot for charity. One doesn't cancel out the other.

Budsbegginingspringinsight · 08/03/2019 18:21

It's something that would flag up to a grandparent doing this to be honest..

Once in blue moon... but grandparents insisting child regularly sleeps in their bed????

dragonflyinn10 · 08/03/2019 18:22

@teatimez it says that the money was better than putting him behind bars re chandler case if my child was abused there is no amount of money to ever than to see the abuser behind bars he settled out court and THEY TOOK IT

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 08/03/2019 18:24

cal I agree nobody is all good or all bad. I don't think the video was posted to prove he didn't rape anyone. It was posted, I logically assume, to show that it wasn't just younger boys that Michael befriended and done things for because people are claiming that it was as a fact. Its sad (and hysteria) that the response to it was purely 'that mother has so clearly been groomed'. Bizarre response to the actual video and what it was showing.

tea to be fair, if I had had death threats, was ridiculously minted and famous,I think I'd have alarms around my bedroom too tbh. Actually, just the death threats would do it for me.

DeRigueurMortis · 08/03/2019 18:25

I made the following point on a previous thread on this subject but I'd like to repeat it.

Even if MJ did not sexually abuse those children he deliberately used his stardom to normalise inappropriate behaviour between an adult man and young children that represents a severe safeguarding risk.

Teaching young children that it's okay and normal to share a bed alone with a man who is not a family member and virtually unknown to you, is totally inappropriate and normalises a situation that could put a child in danger.

That is the "best" possible conclusion you can take on MJ's behaviour.

Why would you want to defend a position that's so low?

Then why wouldn't you ask why he would do that?

That's not being kind, or being a friend to children.

Then logically, do I trust the assertions of a person whose proven through actions they have admitted they they are prepared to act in a way that's in conflict with a child's best interests?

If your answer is still yes, then you need to do some deep thinking as to why.

Budsbegginingspringinsight · 08/03/2019 18:25

  1. there was never any need for anyone except his adult partners to share his bed.everything could have been innocently done elsewhere.

  2. he wasn't a sexual..but never any partners...

  3. boys were everything in his theming... paintings of him surrounded ... by boys, Peter Pan king of the boys...

  4. never girls...never older children

  5. his security at house and security detail...