Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

I believe W Robson too btw, only I can see why surface appearances lead to more people doubting him

The FBI as far as I can tell only investigated the Terry George claim of phone sex. How they would have aided social services investigation is unclear.

There are some timeline discrepancies which cynics claim are more to do with avoiding statute of limitations. James's mother must have known what 'bad' implied in 2005 or she would not have been dancing at the thought of Jackson not being able to hurt another boy when he died 4 years later.

Harrowing watching. For those out there who love MJ, please consider the damage you do to these victims by your denial. If as some have stated Wade and Jimmy have made these accusations for money, by suing MJ's estate, it would be a way to get their terrible experiences believed the legal system to be properly believed. If were to Judge rule it happened then it DID happen. Sadly, the case was viewed to be over time. If Jimmy wanted money, why did he burn the Thriller jacket as shown in the closing credits? Surely, many MJ superfans would have paid a fortune for that jacket? And why would these guys put themselves in the public eye, knowing the hideous abuse they would receive from the MJ apologists, not to mention the fact that by telling their stories has clearly damaged their relationships with their foolish, naive mothers.

It’s disgusting and shameful that people refuse to believe these men. There are loads of people guilty of crime wtithout loads of physical evidence. It really is no wonder that people are reluctant to report abuse, it sickens me

I just revisited some of the Martin Bashir interview. I remember being shocked at it, at the time but now even more so. MJ was questioned persistently about the sleepovers and he kept repeating that he couldn't see anything wrong with a 44 year old man sharing his room/bed with kids (specifically young boys). He mentioned macaulay culkin and his brothers and how much fun they all had sharing a bed. He also said his kids (then 5 and 6 I think) slept with other people and he was fine with that! And denied any plastic surgery except one nose job!
Regardless of what did or didn't happen at the sleepovers the fact that a) they happened at all and b) he couldn't (or pretended he couldn't) see anything remotely wrong with it is bloody disturbing in itself.

Reed told Vice in Februarythis link opens in a new tab, “I wasn’t there when Wade burned those items, but the photographic evidence suggests those were the real deal, yeah.”

“I sold some Jackson items at auction in 2011 to raise money for therapy following a nervous breakdown,” Robson, 36, tells PEOPLE. “After disclosing my abuse to my therapist in 2012 I burned some more items as part of my recovery. The Thriller jacket that I burned in the photos was my custom childhood Thriller jacket that I used to perform in. Those are the images portrayed in Leaving Neverland.”

The Thriller jacket was a replica.

he couldn't (or pretended he couldn't) see anything remotely wrong with it is bloody disturbing in itself.

At some point someone (his minder, his manager, his siblings, his mother) must have explained how it looks and why he shouldn't do it.
But he continued, He knew how it looked. The idea he was too innocent to see it just doesn't hold up well.

CaptainKirk
I don't buy that he was too innocent to see how it seemed...but its disturbing how he wants to portray himself that way and try to fit some peter pan persona that he has tried to create for himself....and that has clearly worked for children and their parents to be that trusting of him.
I actually think loads of drivers, minders, staff etc must have known what was going on....but would they have actually said something to him (regardless of reporting it elsewhere)

fine
I suggest you advance search me and look up ALL my comments over both threads.
You will find that I have provided sources and verified facts on both sides because I believe in fact-checking and making an informed opinion based on rigorous research. and I am procrastinating doing stuff
Occam's razor would mean that Jackson is a probable paedophile.
He would never have had access to my kids.
That, and I hate sleepovers and playdates but that's another thread.
I have no skin in the game. But I have taken an interest in the case pre and post documentary and so don't let sweeping statements go unchecked.

If you can’t see that Michael Jackson was a paedophile after watching @danreed1000 ‘s film you are being wilfully blind. And if you are campaigning against it you are actively colluding in the silencing of victims.

Quote from Louis Theroux which I agree with.

Well that was harrowing.

Just finished watching on catch up.

I though both men were eminently believable and the similarities in how the abuse started/escalated/manifested was chilling. As was the grooming of their families.

Does it prove beyond all doubt MJ was a child abuser? No.

Do I believe he sexually abused these men as boys based on their testimony? Yes.

Ccmrob- do you think he's innocent? Do you think he didn't have sex with children?

I do like Louis.
I will sit on my hands not to comment on him being blind to Jimmy Saville

Yes I like Louis. Think he felt bad for missing his opportunity with Jimmy Saville.

He did. His second film on Saville post-revelations was very good.

I believe them. I feel so sorry that they were abused and that they were not protected by their parents.
I hope they can find peace and thank god that no more children will be harmed.

I believe them, but I can also see MJ's guilt. I noticed that he said 'I would never hurt a child'
, rather than say 'I didn't sexually abuse a child'

Because in his sick, f**ked up mind, he wasn't hurting them, and maybe that's how he was able to convince people.

Wade becoming a father to baby Koa is what brought it to the surface. I've heard that that is extremely triggering for victims of abuse.

I’ve finished this today. It was a hard and harrowing watch. I remember the 2005 case and Martin Bashir’s interview and the subsequent attempt at interview by Louis Theroux and there was no doubt in my mind there was something very very very wrong with MJ. I remember being as astonished as fuck when he was acquitted.

Obviously Leaving Neverland hasn’t changed my view and although it was a very uncomfortable watch, I’m glad I did because I believe those 2 men with absolute certainty. Some of the language they use and how their describe their denials and reaction really hits home for me.
As a PP eloquentlynput it, it proves nothing but it doesn’t make it less true.

I've just watched the second part. He is GUILTY.

And yes, if anybody knows how easy it is to be duped by these people, it’s Louis Theroux by way of his first Saville doc. I doubt he’d make the same mistake twice.

Just said on another thread re all this bed stuff.

I loved having sleep overs as child.... but physically being in the same bed was never part of the draw!!
Everything he said he liked doing could have Been done anywhere else... outside of a bed. my DC adore sleepover but again sharing a bed with their friends is not the draw.

It's just being with them. He's showed no respect for the physical boundaries of these boys, without the actual touching abuse!

Obsessed with being in a bed . He's led us all on a merry dance.

I just wanted to say what amazing wives wade and James have.

Wade's wife not wanting to see wade's mum for six months was totally understandable. I wanted to high five her when that was relayed.

Also wade's older brother - what an impossible amount of trauma he has had obviously knowing his mother was not up to being a parent and having his father kill himself after he went on a long haul flight.
I can't imagine going through that and being able to communicate truthfully like that.

nc

I agree... I don't think he thought he was hurting them.
The boys loved him... adored him....

Wade's mum is bizzare.
She's still not taken on board what's she's done and her part