Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

Wow i have just watched the below video. The Mum seems brainwashed, it's fascinating.

Has anyone looked into Omer Bhatti ?
Like an extended version of what happened with many other boys.
But Omer seemed to be the real life partner / groomed to become husband. From childhood until mid 20s and acting like a partner bringing up the surrogate kids

mjandboys.wordpress.com/2016/04/23/michael-jackson-and-omer-bhatti-1996-2009/

I just watched the end of part 2, where Wade finally tells his therapist and then his family what happened. It made me cry, so powerful. There is no way that that man, his wife, his sister and his brother are all oscar-worthy actors of the calibre that could be faking that. The paedophile apologist and socks on this thread make me sick. Shame on you.

@hello in what way does she appear brainwashed? By knowing Michael done nice things for her son and they were great friends? Are you suggesting he brainwashed her to groom and abuse her adult son?

I find it interesting that both Culkin and Feldman were emancipated from their parents whilst friends with MJ. Feldman was already extremely vulnerable as he has talked about being sexually abused by by adult males in the film industry. Although Feldman has never said he was abused by MJ he has talked about how damaging his friendship was as all of a sudden he was dropped by MJ when he reached a certain age, as with a lot of the other boys.

Just to confirm, I only kind of agreed with TripTrap on this post made below

"Wades mum groomed? Oh come, that woman sought Michael oyt and chased him to try and get him interested in her son. That's not MJ grooming her, that's her being a pushy cow and an absolutely awful mother. And that's not me saying that in defense of Michael either. Its purely because it's god damn true and she needs to be held accountable for, quite frankly, being a nutty, selfish bitch!"

I do not for one minute think the MJ was innocent. But I am finding it very difficult to believe that Joy Robson didn't have her own interests at heart.

of course she's to blame, she was a self absorbed idiot. She's lost her relationship with her son as a result. But she isn't to blame as much as MJ is.

HowlsMovingBungalow - You mean you you will believe what you want to believe. Most have already made their minds up. They have seen these final and polished and version of events from the two men in this film. Everyone else in the film is acting as they would do naturally, as anyone would.

It's the fact that both of the men have given versions of events that contradict others accounts and couldn't be true. They have told lies and been caught out and so changed their story again, and again and again. It's the fact that they have done this which makes me not believe them overall. Such as in the case where James said something happened in his version of events, yet the links through the above woman prove it couldn't have happened that way.

Of course their descriptions of what happened match what Chandler and Arviso said, they both had their story told in court long before these two said they were abused. All they would need to do copy what they both said happened it's bound to look suspect. We aren't talking about two people who couldn't have possibly known what it was alleged that Michael had done to them.

As I said before, people have already made their mind up. They don't want to seek truth they just want to believe he was a peado, and that's that. It easier that way.

Having worked with trauma and abuse survivors, I believe the accounts of both men in the documentary.

The impact that the abuse has had on their relationships, their own realisations in adulthood, observing their own children and it dawning on them that they were once innocent children and that what took place was wrong & inappropriate; the conflict in having to 'admit' there was so much 'bad' in the 'good'; it really is very much what we see in adults reflecting on childhood and all forms of abuse.

My stomach churned and flipped at the realisation that MJ was not eccentric, an innocent character who loved children, but was indeed a peadophile and it's a hard adjustment to make.

Over time perhaps more accounts will come forwards, but many more will stay silent, either through fear of not being believed, having already been silenced through settlements / signed papers or because they have made 'peace' in their own minds (learned to live with it) with what they gained (ie wealth / status / leaving poverty/ lack of opportunity) vs what they lost (innocence, protection, sexual innocence) (I'm afraid this occurs in many cases).

It will take time but people will learn and be educated in this matter. He abused his power and his stardom. There were victims, many victims. There are after-affects for years to come.

Also, why does Wade not mention that he sought to get married at Neverland during MJ’s trial in 2005? Did Michael force him to want that?

Doesn't seem to match with Wades account in this film, saying he didn't want to testify in 2005 but was told he had to. At that point he is essentially saying he knew what he claimed Michael did was wrong, yet wanted to get married at Neverland??? WTF.

Has anyone seen the emails transcript between Wade and his mother? He emails to ask very specific questions of how they met MJ and when; how many times they went to America; did they sign a NDA; etc etc. All things he said he couldn't remember. But suddenly, after those emails, he remembers everything in minute detail

Although Feldman has never said he was abused by MJ he has talked about how damaging his friendship was as all of a sudden he was dropped by MJ when he reached a certain age, as with a lot of the other boys.

Feldman may have be aware of the signs and protected himself, due to his own experances with adults in the film industry before meeting Michael.

Cal yep, MJ is definitely the most vile creature in all of this.

As a survivor I believe those men.

You can keep trotting out your 'evidence' the same as the rest of the MJ cult as I said I have no time for apologists.

For posters saying that the survivors accounts have contradicted earlier accounts etc; when unveiling past trauma, it can be incredibly difficult to accurately put together the scenarios. So many, many reasons for this; fear, apprehension, confusion, defence mechanisms, just to start.

It can take people DECADES to form the accurate timeline of abuse. DECADES. It's so complex. The sort of therapy they have can also affect which memories are accessed too, and imagine the amount of work that then has to go into unlocking, unpicking and opening up further to explore the details? It is being underestimated significantly here.

I find it interesting how anyone on this thread who says they're on the fence or don't have enough info from a one-sided documentary to properly make up their mind are being slated for being blind to it all; yet those who also really don't know for sure are saying it happened 100%.

This documentary was all based on stories and accusations, from 2 men who know and knew each other. The difference in the Jimmy savile case was that so many stories matched almost exactly, from people who'd never met each other. Also lots and lots of people then came forward - including many people who could have been classed as complicit in it - to confirmit has all happened.

I personally don't know for sure, but i do find the fact that the FBI trailed him for years and came up with nothing interesting too. If actual evidence appears, I'll obviously not be on the fence.

Feldman just wasn't MJ's type. Jackson really had a preference for very pretty young boys.

It looks like Corey Feldman is working uo the courage too:

www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2019/03/corey-feldman-changes-stance-on-michael-jackson-doc-leaving-neverland-1202571919/amp/

MJ is a fucking monster. Those poor men.

What makes the whole situation difficult is that all of these boys idolised MJ. He was not a stranger who violently attacked them. He was their friend who showered them with gifts and love. These boys were young enough to not understand what was happening to them, they thought it was normal, their parents were complicit so it must have been OK. To realise years later what happened is not OK must be devastating. They are trying to come to terms with it and are having to deal with the full force of social media.

“It comes to a point where as an advocate for victims, as an advocate for changing the statutes of limitations to make sure victims’ voices are heard, it becomes impossible for me to remain virtuous and not at least consider what’s being said and not listen to what the victims are saying.”

It can't be easy for him hearing this about someone he thought was a friend, but he's right.

I have a lot of respect for Corey Feldman in recent years.

"I personally don't know for sure, but i do find the fact that the FBI trailed him for years and came up with nothing interesting too. If actual evidence appears, I'll obviously not be on the fence."

This. The FBI were gunning for him and in both of the first two trials, I was interested to see the truth come out. I was open to the facts and listened to it all. If these guys did indeed commit perjury and not tell the truth when they had the chance, then it is sick and I'm sure it's the least Chandler and Arviso deserved. They had their chance for justice robbed from them by the lies. Defend it how you want, but I was convinced by the 2005 trial when they found nothing at all despite going all out on this for years and years.

Not a single one of the hundreds or even 1000s of staff over the years was able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was guilty of any of the things claimed here. Are you telling me not one one had the bravery or courage to do what was right over that time??? Impossible.

Corey Feldman is very brave, especially for someone so clearly traumatised and damaged by their past. He has done a lot to lift the lid on sexual abuse within the industry.

As I said before, people have already made their mind up. They don't want to seek truth they just want to believe he was a peado, and that's that. It easier that way

I completely disagree. People have, in the main, not wanted to believe MJ was a child abuser, I certainly didn't think so all those years I loved his music videos, sang along to songs on the radio. It is the sheer weight of evidence, the 4 or 5 or more allegations (not two), the constant seeking of young boys as companions, the sleepovers over 30 years with young boys/teens, all of this is just inexplicable through some type of 'he just wants to relive his childhood' type of a way. It has taken gritty terrible narratives to get people to believe differently- but they do now.