Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

Wades mum groomed? Oh come, that woman sought Michael oyt and chased him to try and get him interested in her son. That's not MJ grooming her, that's her being a pushy cow and an absolutely awful mother. And that's not me saying that in defense of Michael either. Its purely because it's god damn true and she needs to be held accountable for, quite frankly, being a nutty, selfish bitch!

I haven't seen part 2 yet but it is definitely the case that men like this do not pursue every child under their care. Look at scout masters, boarding school teachers, vicars - those involved in this pick someone quite vulnerable so even if he did not do it to some others is not evidence these men are making it up. Even if he did nothing it was weird to share a bed anyway and not right that someone could gain such influence over young boys - something everyone around him should have tried to stop.

I haven't watched part 2 yet but even part 1 was very convincing. Also the fact the men describe the complexity of the relationship so well is pretty credible - the way someone with that kind of power can exercise it and the fact it is not simple.

I don't particularly blame the mothers and fathers although even in the 1960s our mother warned us all about this kind of thing - it is as old as the hills and you always did and always will ensure you keep your small children away from being alone with one adult in these weird kind of set ups.

All the tweets etc defending Michael Jackson as wade and jimmy defended him in court- jimmy was 15 !!!! In 1993 when he defended him so still a very young man and probably was totally in denial about everything and he refused to testify at the 2000s trial . Hardly a strong defence

That's my feelings TripTrap but I feel I should be more understanding!

I haven't seen it yet but in no doubt he is a paedophile and have felt that for years.

Quick question for those that have watched part 1. When I was making dinner yesterday my 11 year old dd1 was flicking through recorded programmes and came across it. It's titled "leaving neverland - michael jackson and me". She assumed it was a programme about Michael Jackson so watched it. The first i knew was when she came running in to me incredibly upset. From what I can understand from her is she saw about 20min of it. She deleted it because she was so upset so I can't check how much is in the first 20min. It took me ages to calm her down and we had a good age appropriate discussion about it but I'm kicking myself i never told them not to watch it. It has also led to a discussion about not watching programmes mum and dad record .

So wondering was there anything too traumatising in the first 20min of part 1?

Watch it on C4 catch-up Dulra

AngelinaNeurosurgeon thought of that but live in ireland and can't seem to access it

I really really didn't want to believe it. I felt sorry for Michael because of his childhood and I believe it really messed him up. After watching the documentary though it is so sad and it looks like it is true. What he did was wrong.

It's at about the 1st 20 minutes they start talking graphically about Michael giving blow jobs and licking different body parts. It's a very sudden change in tone.
Your daughter obviously turned it off as soon as she realised the subject matter.

Nothing sexual was mentioned until they got to Paris iirc which was quite near part 1. ask her if she saw when Jimmy was with him in Paris. Part 2 is full on.

You can find the programs by entering it into google search. I didn't find it in you tube but another web site.

Dulra I can get it in Ireland, just register with All4.

Harrowing viewing. Jimmy broke my heart❤

She did seek him out at first. Totally agree. Mj used her excitement of meeting someone famous to get what he wanted. She was weak and exactly what could be manipulated.

I too can't get my head round how a parent can do that. But I have seen mothers have relationships with peadophiles. Live with them and give up their kids to social services when they are told to make a choice.

I have seen parents turn a blind to the abuse they are receiving from a family member as it is normal within their family. This happens a lot.

It's frightening but happens and every time it's as shocking as the first.

This raises all kinds of questions for me about the responsibility of the adults to protect children. If we just say 'well they were groomed' about everyone, is no-one ever responsible for keeping their children sensibly safe? Abducted in Plain Sight is simply the worst example IMO of absolutely negligent parenting- the child was abused/abducted twice and the parents were complicit in not prosecuting the abductor and both of them slept with him. MJ was different because he was a star and used that to dazzle everyone into thinking the abnormal was normal.

Thanks guys yes calpop yes I think that's what happened thank god she'd the sense to turn it off.
shins cheers will do that i assumed it was something you could only get through tv

An 11 year old! It’s about child rape! Dear god you need to tighten up your supervision

The details of it might have been very upsetting to her. However the idea that adults abuse children is usually known by 10/11 year olds, they covered the Jimmy Saville case on Newsround and my children asked about it- it was also on radio news etc. It is not possible to entirely shield them from knowing about this in a 24/7 news world.

I'd chat to her a bit, find out what upset her, and perhaps this is a sensible way into to talking about adults who ask you to keep things secret/be alone with you etc. I've talked to mine about it.

It's not comfortable viewing.........

You are so right there. That mother.... My mouth was hanging open at her stupidity.

People keep bringing up Macaulay Culkin and Corey Feldman, as if them saying they weren't abused somehow discredits Wade and Jimmy. It doesn't!

MC and CF were child stars, that means their families had a certain amount of money and influence, although nowhere as much as MJ . Still, he had to know that abusing them would be far riskier than abusing the children of nobodies who his lawyers could easily dismiss as gold-digging or fame hungry. If there's one thing I've learned through my work it's that successful paedophiles are extremely devious. They're smart, they're in control of themselves, they play the long game.
Of course it's also possible that MC and CF were abused by MJ and simply don't want to put themselves through the personal anguish and media shitstorm that would inevitably follow a disclosure. But it would have been very smart of Jackson to spend time with MC and CF (still enabling him to enjoy the closeness, the intimacy of sharing a bed, watching them undress etc at sleepovers) but never actually lay a hand on them. They were just kids, they wouldn't know his motivations, they might be able to legitimately say "he never touched me" but that doesn't mean their sleepovers were innocent and that MJ wasn't getting off on being in close proximity to them.

MInister I agree- sharing a bed overnight and showing them porn when they are 10-13 and the adult is 30+ is abusive anyway in my opinion and I would be horrified if it happened to my children.

It's also clear that like everyone, Michael had a type- so very good looking boys between 8-13 is. No girls, no plain children, no stroppy older teens (which is why this 'reliving his childhood' is all bollocks as if he just loved children in general, then why not hang out with all types of kids and keep the friendships going longer?)

He basically fell for and created a special 'romance' with these impressionable children, mimicking an adult romance. You don't want to have sex with every adult male or female you meet, do you, so why would he?

I sort of understand that in a sense the whole family were groomed to enabke this to happen... but for Wades family i think they had been there a matter of hours when they agreed for him to stay. (Age 7) i can't imagine what hold he must have had for that to seem like an ok idea...? Jimmys mum seemed to have some clues ie asking why there rooms were further away....and feeling things were not right when the jordy chandler case came up....and then when he bought them a house...
I feel like Wades mum is still brainwashed though.

Krazy he didn't have a hold on Wades mother of his own making. If he did abuse Wade then he wouldn't have needed to groom the mother. She chased and sought after Michael for a couple of years to take interest in her son, by her own admission, and was turned down by Michael several times over those years, by her own admission. MJ even told her to stop pushing on Wade and let him have a normal childhood. Again, that was her own admission.

Whether MJ is guilty or not, that woman was horrible and sure didn't require brainwashing!!

Ryan White was a courageous 18 year old boy with AIDS who befriended #MichaelJackson before passing. Safechuck claims Michael let go of him when he hit puberty (proven to be a lie)...but looking at Michael’s relationship with Ryan at “18 years old” further disproves his claims.

I have zero time for paedophile apologists.