Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

out of all of this i really hope Jordy and Gavin can get some peace those poor poor people. i hope it helps, its them im most concerned for in this.

At least Jimmy's mother acknowledges her failings. Wade's mother seems to have as much sympathy for herself as she does for him. And not wanting to hear about the abuse because it would upset her too much. I'm not surprised her sons have difficulty forgiving her fully.

Wade's mum.
Wow.

Whole family destroyed because of her obsession with mj

Wades mother is still in denial I think. She wants to see MJ as sick, like a sick child who doesn’t know right from wrong. She still doesn’t really see him as a paedophile.

I cried just now watching that. I think they were incredibly brave to speak out. The MJ superfans are a scary bunch.

His mug shot is so creepy. Wtf did he do to himself.

Really very sad. Don't understand how anyone watching that could still be questioning it. You can see it all
over their faces.

I do think MJ was mentally unwell, perhaps as a result of his fathers sexual abuse? He looked so frail when he died I wonder if he regretted his actions

Wades mum: " I don't know what I could have done"

Wades mum is a nutter. Curled up in bed with the jacket for a week.

This man ruined while families lives.

I think it is very sad how the woman is always the scapegoat for men's abuse

When I watched part 1, I wasn't totally convinced, but now I've seen part 2 it seems beyond doubt that MJ was guilty of abusing those two young boys, and probably abused others too. The interviews from James and Wade, and their family members, amount to overwhelming evidence, IMO.
I used to enjoy MJ's music, but it's all tainted for me now.
For those criticising the mothers, it seems both women are struggling to forgive themselves for not protecting their boys. They're not the first mothers to be fooled by a paedophile grooming their children, and considering the culprit was rich, famous and cultivated a very clever child-like image, I can see why they were blind to the truth.
It's so sad, for everyone involved. So much suffering, so many lies... but finally those two men found the courage to speak out. I applaud them for their courage, and applaud the director and everyone involved in making this documentary. It was a real eye opener for me.

I meant to say, considering that he cleverly cultivated a child-like image.

I havent watched either programme. Just bad timing. But a question ive always had re Michael Jackson is if he was a paedophile surely he would have abused his own children and other children like mc cauley culkin, feldman , and the actor he was friendly with children..cant remember his name ('oliver' actor) ?

Paedophiles don't abuse ALL children that they come into contact with

“i do think MJ was mentally unwell” - not relevant, he was a predatory paedophile!

“ He looked so frail when he died I wonder if he regretted his actions”. - again, so what?

I started to watch Abducted in Plain Sight after reading this thread. It is very similar to this situation.

As a mother I hated watching this and the other documentary but at the same time I feel like I have learned something. Its about manipulation and access.

And how do you know they weren’t abused? What is striking from the accounts is that the boys didn’t and still can’t easily view MJ as the stereotypical, evil, nasty guy who physically and aggressively forced the boys into sexual activity.

He targeted those who looked up to him, who had an obsession with him. He made them feel special. The sexual abuse was 5% of the relationship with MJ. They compartmentalised it as how could they compare it with the 95% lovely sweet kind MJ who gave them fame, who helped their families. Everyone around them was singing his praises. The boys who did accuse him were attacked by the rest of the world.

Who knows what else went on with MJ behind closed doors. The others may have admitted it to therapists but can’t face the wrath of the public eye. I mean Macauley was estranged from his parents at 14. If MJ was the only adult who showed him love then maybe he can’t face that the sexual aspects were wrong.

Maybe they still don’t want to see that it was abuse. Maybe they don’t want to taint Mjs
Memory because they still look up to him for his music, charity etc etc. Maybe they see themselves as contributing to the abuse. It is likely they don’t see it as abuse but a form of love.

When abuse takes place by a family member or friend over a long period of time and alongside caring and loving non sexual acts its so much more complex than oh they are an evil person I must tell the world. Why is that so hard to understand?

A paedophile doesn't necessarily abuse every child he comes into contact with.

But in all likelihood, a paedophile will likely abuse those in vulnerable positions, away from parents, who share his bed. Why else would he invite them over to Neverland for extended periods away from their families?! Also if it follows the same pattern as other boys such as wade and James then, I really struggle to believe the other children weren’t abused too. Whether they have processed it or not is another matter.

Plus don’t forget Macauley Culkin is an actor. If he wanted to play a role in defending Michael (perhaps because the truth may be too difficult or shameful to admit.. and because he still loved Michael) I’m sure the account would be fairly convincing. Like with wade when he testified.

Other children may not even be believed by their own parents as the parents tended to be MJ superfans who can’t see anything wrong in him. Let’s not underestimate how difficult it would be to come out against a globally adored superstar who had helped you and your family. No wonder a lot of the abuse will likely never be uncovered.

Also I do wonder if he stopped inviting children over when he had his own children and therefore unlimited access to them and therefore no need for other people’s. Scary thought..

And this ohh he is innocent and asexual.. erm so why did he have so much porn then?! Why was he exposing children to it?! Macauley even admitted he had seen his porn collection when he was like 12....

Twist I really can't see how you can not blame Wades mum though, obviously MJ is the major player here, without a doubt but Wades mum shouldn't have been so compliant to the abuse. She had known MJ for no time at all and Wades father wasn't even there so he had no say what's so ever. At the end of the MJ is by far the worse but if Wades mum hadn't offered him up like a sacrificial lamb then he wouldn't have happened.

Ha ha Crazy yes paedos abuse EVERY CHILD they meet! Are you for real?
Try saying to a rape victim, oh no, he couldn't have raped you as he never raped me, his friend, Sandra in accounts!

Wades mum was groomed too.
She is also partly in denial still to the extent and impact of the abuse on her son.
She is acting like a victim because partly she was a victim too.

Saviles assistant to this day denies and refuses to believe what he did. She still adores him. That's because he groomed her so well her head is gone.

We all know how people can be made to believe something is real or ok. From sexual abusers. Cult followings. Terrorists. It's all the same method. It's all training a persons brain to be complicit in something.

I do get that Cushion, but it just blows my mind to think that a mother can do that, I just don't believe that she can be groomed to that extent. I honestly feel like she was doing it to fulfill her own agenda. There's just no remorse from her, none at all.

I just cannot comprehend that an adult, mother and protector of children could do such a thing. I know you are right cushion but I find it so hard to believe.