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Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

999 replies

SachaStark · 06/03/2019 15:51

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

OP posts:
Xenia · 07/03/2019 19:28

It is very well done and accurately reflects how these things often go. Some boys at boarding schools have explained similar feelings. It is by no means all rough sex and force. If it helps even just one parent to realise no matter what the situation allowing the child to be alone like that is never okay then the programme is worth it.

Whether it is true or not (seems true to me) I don't think anyone disputes he had young boys to sleep alone in his bed. I cannot understand why his family or staff allowed that to happen.

ccmrob12 · 07/03/2019 19:31

Just someone else who was there, around these people and their families. Another voice that the director could have sought out to gain a balanced view on a subject. But that wouldn't have suited the narrative.

I always find the fairest and best documentaries start with one side, then the other, and the narrative is able to draw a conclusion from the two sides and any evidence produced. This isn't that.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 07/03/2019 19:33

Wade Robson has stated his motivation is to give his story a platform and get it heard

Yes. I saw the Oprah interview (it is on youtube along with part 2) but, nonetheless they are appealing. The director quite rightly says this is their right to seek justice in the courts and I agree...but both sides of this (the Jackson family and the complainants) have a financial interest hence the need for journalistic rigour and research rather than gut feeling/emotional reaction to testimony.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 07/03/2019 19:41

utter bull, as is the idea that Taj Jackson wont be profiting in any from the MJ estate.

I gave you a source - as he is so famous, the trust details went into the public domain. By all means refute it with a different source or explanation of what you mean (The whole family are being funded by Katharine? Taj and TJ get money from Paris?) Dismissing something as bull without saying why is no way to debate or get clarity on something.

ccmrob12 · 07/03/2019 19:49

I wonder how people feel toward Jordy Chandler and Arviso, namely these two in the documentary. These two, several times, gave evidence against Jordy Chandler and Gavin Arviso. I wonder if Chandler and Arviso will look to counter sue these two for blowing their cases given the fact they committed perjury. Any money they gain if they win their appeal could be swiftly taken from them if this ever goes that far.

Hmmmm.....wonder how they feel about that? Wonder if it get's mentioned in part 2?

Nessy1977 · 07/03/2019 19:55

Never liked him since he chose a white man as a sperm donor. And please don't say those children are biologically his. Of course they're not.

Hushnownobodycares · 07/03/2019 20:31

hence the need for journalistic rigour and research rather than gut feeling/emotional reaction to testimony

I'd prefer to see legal rigour and research applied.

Mrscaindingle · 07/03/2019 20:33

cc whoever you are Hmm none of what you have ranted about is proof MJ did not abuse those boys, in fact victims of CSA often have troubled lives with major difficulties with relationships having problems with boundaries due to the fact that they were abused.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 07/03/2019 20:44

I'd prefer to see legal rigour and research applied

Indeed...but at the moment we are talking about trial by social media in the court of public opinion.

Fwiw, I hope they can appeal and have their day in court and that defence witnesses like Taj Jackson (who claims the segment about the meal in part 2 is slanderous) and Brandi Jackson (who claims she was in a relationship with Wade which ruins the timeline allegedly) get to put forward their truths in front of a judge.

ccmrob12 · 07/03/2019 20:53

Mrscaindingle - And this documentary and the words of two people who committed perjury (if they are to be believed) is not proof he did. The fact more than one FBI investigation wasn't able to find any evidence says to me all we need to know. The fact is people can't let it lie and continue to chase this narrative because it suits them. The fact people chose to believe one side of story despite even the director of this film admitting he unearth no new evidence is crazy. Why don't people just let it lie now is beyond me.

Mrscaindingle · 07/03/2019 20:58

Why people don't just let it lie now is beyond me

Why on earth would people let allegations of many years of childhood sexual abuse lie??? Really??

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 07/03/2019 20:58

Clyde Jenkins who used to work for MJJ Music & a close friend to the Jackson family has gone to Facebook to voice his frustration on Wade Robson & James Safechuck, he doesn’t hold back.

Hmm. Facebook and ranting.

  1. Joy took money. That's on the Mum not on Wade.
  2. Joy was a stage mum. Again, on her not Wade.
  3. Failed record deal - only relevant in that MJ giving inducements.
  4. Brandi, Britney etc - does not invalidate abuse at other times, nor later relationships, marriages etc Timeline/dates I would want to see in court if they establish complainants could not have been at NL
  5. Infidelities with Justin/Prince's exes - irrelevant wrt abuse
  6. Dance show/loyalty - as with 5. character assassination
  7. Choreo rejections - motive as revenge but again, circumstantial
  8. Timing/money - he could still work as a dance trainer/trigger was his own son's birth and breakdown
  9. Dismissal of suit - statute of limitations not the allegations themselves
10. HBO suit - cannot slander a dead man so as the dismissal was technical, the suit will also be technical based on an HBO agreement 11. Weird - yes, sleepovers and playdates from 22 years onwards is weird 12. RIP - victims also require peace and closure
BitOfFun · 07/03/2019 21:03

This is a very good review of the documentary which touches sensitively on the issue of the mothers and their failure to protect their children. It is very clear that Jackson's victims encompassed entire families.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 07/03/2019 21:05

These two, several times, gave evidence against Jordy Chandler and Gavin Arviso.

In the Oprah interview Wade openly apologized to Gavin iirc, that he was not able at that time to come forward.

Gavin got married. Jordan is in hiding.
The former I think wants none of it, including money, he just wants it behind him. Jordan is NC with his parents, living off his settlement, trying to stay anonymous.
Both have allegedly received death threats from fans/Jordan has moved and changed appearance.
Dan Reed wrote to Gavin - no reply.
He hoped to make a sequel with Jordy/Gavin. I doubt whether either will want to regurgitate the whole, sad, sorry mess.

Budsbegginingspringinsight · 07/03/2019 21:09

He also keeps saying he never wants to Hurt children... he doesn't see himself as hurting them and as a child neither do they

DaisyDreaming · 07/03/2019 21:15

I completely get the fact wade testified at 22 and people are using that against him but can’t believe reporters asking a kid ‘has he ever done anything questionable’ oh and while being filmed for tv! Like a child will compute the question and decide National tv is how they will feel safe making a disclosure

DaisyDreaming · 07/03/2019 21:22

The bit I can’t understand is the FBI tracking and investigating for so long. Would love to know how they did that, how detailed was it,

BitOfFun · 07/03/2019 21:46

There is detailed information here about what the FBI discovered during their searches.

HowlsMovingBungalow · 07/03/2019 21:47

Jimmy's experience really resonates with me as a survivor.

SoleBizzz · 07/03/2019 22:10

I have just started to watch part 2. I can't stand to look at Jackson.

ShesABelter · 07/03/2019 22:19

This has all been very triggering for me having been a child who wasn't believed when I spoke out about my abuse only for my abuser to be jailed ten years later after prolifically abusing other girls and getting their parents to let them sleep in his bed at sleepovers cause he "Was great with kids". Seeing all the people on Facebook defending him and not believing the victims has made me feel sick to the pit of my stomach and utter rage.

You wonder WHY they didn't speak out sooner. Stockholm syndrome and the amount of abuse and people dounting them, shame that they had done something to cause it.

I seriously hope someone who was abused as a child and was ready to speak out thanks to this documentary hasn't now been put off by the absolute slating these men are now getting openly over social media.

HowlsMovingBungalow · 07/03/2019 22:26

Flowers @ShesABelter

Me too. Me too lovely.

Ozzybobgoblin · 07/03/2019 22:29

Gosh , that part has made me cry.

ShesABelter · 07/03/2019 22:31

I have had to deactivate my social media before I say something I regret to someone. I'm disgusted by the people I know saying blase comments like "na dont buy it. I'm curious to know if any of the people not buying it or defending MJ have ever been abused or had a sibling or child who was abused. I doubt it.

BitOfFun · 07/03/2019 22:36

It's really weird the way MJ's defenders see themselves as bold, creative non-conformists standing up against a huge conspiracy, when they are actually just parroting the tired old tropes of rape culture and couldn't be more conformist if they tried.