Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

I can’t stand all this ‘they’re acting like x, which isn’t the proper way to be acting’ bullshit.
MJ could have abused a child on the stage and there’d still be these weirdos fucking defending him.

People always say 'they're only in it for the fame' when someone makes a sexual abuse allegation against a public figure. Because there are so many well known celebs who've built a career from making allegations of abuse.

Oh , actually...

I can understand the staff not saying anything while they worked for him although other people who worked for celebs have sold stories haven't they? What about after they left his employment though or once he died?

No one in 10 years since his death coming forward? No sorry I don't buy that. Normally at least 1 person would jump on the bandwagon

NO ONE except those boys knows if it is true or not so to say you totally believe them is just rubbish

And yet accusing them of lying for a ‘billion £ claim’ (when they weren’t paid for the documentary) isn’t rubbish? Interesting

Well the ravings of all the blinkered MJ fans/apologists for child abusers make clear why the boys didn’t come forward then.

No one in 10 years since his death coming forward? No sorry I don't buy that. Normally at least 1 person would jump on the bandwagon

Do you seriously believe that? That anyone would admit they were fully aware of child abuse going on but they didn't say or do anything about it?

Not my words:

The two men in that mockumentary: 🙈 James Safechuck signed a legal statement in 05 stating he was never abused.
Wade Robson spoke to police in 1993 as a boy - adamant that he wasn't abused and MJ would never do such a thing.
Sang his praises for 10 years!
In 05, testified in court at MJ's trial he was never abused - adamantly!
The trial transcript is out there for those who do their research.
Continued to defend him for 5 more years until MJ died - when he then begged to be allowed to MJ's memorial and funeral - which he went to.
He wrote an obituary gushing about how MJ taught him what it meant to be a good person. Carried on defending him.
Was trying to work on an MJ tribute with MJ's nephew Taj Jackson.
Then he wanted to work on a tribute act with Cirque de Sole (sp) and MJ's estate and almost had the job.
He was eventually turned down. Bitter, disgruntled, his career and finances rapidly nose-diving, he then came out with this laughable BS.
He sued the estate, as did Jimmy, (same lawyer respresenting both) for 1.6 BILLION! Both cases were eventually denied.
The estate counter sued for attorneys fees, etc. That's currently ongoing.
Wade and Jimmy have appealed the Judges decision on their original lawsuits - and hence, we have this!
Before Wade filed his civil suit, he failed to gain publishing for a salacious book.

I have also and am still working with victims of childhood sexual abuse and I believe MJ is guilty but the documentary just confirms what I already believed. Just like Saville he did it in plain sight and used his power and influence as a way of preventing anyone from raising concerns.

When people started to come out of the woodwork after Savilles death there were many saying 'why now ' so many years after the event.
It is very very hard for people to disclose this given the amount of people ready to say they are lying. This happens in families all the time leaving the person who has plucked up the courage ( which can take years) feeling they are to blame for speaking up and causing a rift in the family.

And there have been more than these two men and I'm sure there will be more to come, but if you don't believe it after watching that documentary mydogisthebest I doubt there's going to be anything that will convince you.

This happens in families all the time leaving the person who has plucked up the courage ( which can take years) feeling they are to blame for speaking up and causing a rift in the family

^^ This times about a million

The families both seemed to have mothers who were pushing their kids to be celebrities and be famous and going for proxy glory through it, like pageant competition mothers and some of the Child Genius parents.
One of the kids (I got the men muddled I agree they looked similar and their stories were similar) was doing very sexualised Michael Jackson routines age about 6 that most parents would have realised was inappropriate, like 6 year old girls dressing like Madonna and singing "Like a Virgin".
The mother ? from Oz who moved to LA realised her son's potential in Oz was limited but surely cute kids doing tribute acts have limited potential everywhere. Not sure how she thought living with MJ and sleeping in his bed was going to help her son's long term interests. It all seems to be about short term fame and money.

Mydogisthebest Maybe read the posts by MinisterforCheekyFuckery above. You know, someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

IF MJ is guilty I wonder whether a lot of victims have been put off by the experiences of MJs first two accusers. They both refuse to speak about it anymore, despite being offered money to sell their stories, and one of them has reportedly had plastic surgery and is unrecognisable due to the number of death threats he had from MJs fans.

Whatever went on it's obvious that whole families have been destroyed by this.

I watched it up until; one of the guys started talking about the abuse then I had to turn it off as I was too upset.

@Mrscaindingle exactly. I also work in this field and find it very frustrating reading victim blaming posts from people who have no understanding and they still wonder why people don't come forward.

I'll be very interested to see part 2 tonight because by God I need to see some remorse from those mothers

There's not a lot.
Jimmy's mother says 'I fucked up. I had one job. I fucked up' and that her living the high life cost her son dearly.
James says he is still working on not blaming his parents.

Wade's mother has a self-pity party - her DIL went non-contact for 5 months, Wade's brother puts the blame firmly at her door (she left him in Australia too) and she will not hear the details of the sexual abuse as she would not be able to handle it.

Neither go into further detail of why they made the choices they made. (aside from what was revealed in part 1 - James's mother saw MJ as a member of the family, Wade's mother was seduced by suites and career opportunities).

Out of all the boys that stayed with MJ why are there only 2 alleging abuse?

You know that most victims of child sexual abuse never report it, right? So it's hardly surprising.

Also, when you look at how the two men who have come forward have been flamed, even threatened by MJ fans online, why would any of the others come forward?

Well quite minister

I don’t know if MJ was guilty or not
However, I would urge you to read the open letter written by a German couple called The Schleiters, who knew MJ very well. Their perspective of the whole thing is really interesting

There's a huge difference between victim blaming and not believing. One is saying they were to blame for the actions taken upon them, the other is not believing or being unsure about the accusations they make. Completely different.

People lie. That is a fact. A party of either side of this is guilty of lying, none of us will ever truly know which party that is, we can only decide based on what we see and our beliefs and interpretations. That also is a fact.

Anyone who has ever believed Michael spent his whole life talking the way he's known is an idiot. That doesn't make him guilty or deceutful either. We all behave differently in different circumstances, our voices may change slightly, we may relax our accents, we may speak slang etc etc Michael also had a persona, as a seriously famoys person that persona or voice would be upheld because that's part of the 'identity' you relate to them. That also doesn't make him guilty. People also change when they are nervous, scared, uncomfortable and when they are happy, relaxed, when they're in their 'fun' place, when they're discussing business.

Look at both sides by all means by to ignore everything on one part and to then tear apart every single thing about Michael that isn't majorly abnormal, is not on and just breeds ridiculous speculation

Apologies for the typos, I'm outside and its raining on my phone

I do wish that people would stop using 'But he didn't abuse these particular children' as a defence. It doesn't work. A) Because you don't know that they weren't (or were) and B) Paedophiles do not abuse all children that they are around anymore than all rapists rape every woman that they see or burglars burgle every house that they pass. I knew a murderer. I'm still walking around alive and whole. The fact that he didn't also kill me even though we were often in close proximity in and out of work, so he had opportunity, in no way means that he didn't kill his victims.

There are at least 5 who have accused him of sexual assault. See here:

mjandboys.wordpress.com/michaeljacksonsyoungfriends/

I know someone who was abused as a child and the behaviour pattern of these 2 men, denial, not being able to admit what had happened or talk about it until they were much older, and had had a lot of therapy and it all coming out once they'd had their own children seems ENTIRELY usual and normal to me, based on their journey.

I'm watching it now and I totally believe them 2, I always thought mj was weird and have never really liked him, I would not in a million years let my kid go and sleep with someone in their room. I can totally understand why no one else has probably come forward these 2 have had so much to deal with since talking about it I can understand why no one else would want to.
He sexually abused them no doubt about it

I was never a MJ fan, although I admired his talent and enjoyed some of his music. He was amazing in his prime, the ultimate superstar, and as someone who wasn't a fan, I still find it hard to watch/listen to his work and reconcile that with the person he appeared to be.

I can only imagine how much more difficult it must be for a true MJ fan, someone who went to his concerts, bought the albums and covered their walls with his posters. I can understand why someone like this would bury their heads, or come out in defence of MJ and try to discredit his accusers. It's almost like, certainly in the case of superfans, part of their own lives were built on a lie too, they thought/think he was a save the world, childlike, misunderstood genius.

I believe Wade and James. I think they're immensely brave.