APPRENTICE FANS - *****BBC2 Tonight 9.00pm****

[ChippyMinton]

The Apprentice - Beyond the Boardroom
Profiles of the surviving candidates - the real people

Conscience? Never. Listen, I used to be a bit like Katie. This is what it boils downs to - She got what she wanted - into the final, she then, very graciously of course, conceded her place (or in her word 'gifted it') to one of the others thus showing herself to be above all that and really that she could take or leave the position. If childcare was an issue she would have dealt with it long ago.

It's all an act - believe it - and she'll go on acting however is necessary to get what she wants - the job, the man, etc until she grows out of it (as I have). Losing her looks (?) will play a major part in this believe me - the minute I started to fade I knew it was time to stop arseing about and get real with people, cos once your coquettish antics are wearing thin, you have to fall back on your personality and more importantly your character and you actually have to build it into something decent whilst you still can.

hi hamma, you make a lovely Queen of Sheba

I agree that how you look has no impact on your business acumen (but I stand by thinking she looks older than 31, I really do think she looks at least 10 years older) but Katie herself has made looks an issue. In the programme on Sunday (?) night she said that fat businessmen were unpleasant (or words to that effect) and that she had no respect for them as they couldn't take care of their bodies. PLus criticisng Kristina for being 'too orange'.

DaisyMOO I haven't been watching it that closely so didn't hear those comments Katie made.

Well said NiceGlasses!

Actually we do know who had children and who didn't in that final group. It was in the "getting to know the final candiadtes" programme (which I thought bit yuck, but watched anyway!). Tre has a two year old and old fashioned ideas about men's roles at home(which was talked about in his interview). Lohit is gay and has a relatively new relationship. Kristina has an 18 year old at university. Simon is single and very young. and Katie has two pretty small children - childcare not mentioned in the programme until Katie brought it up - I assumed she had a nanny or that they lived with their father. They were all asked very personal questions, that I wouldn't expect in an interview at all. But the relocation question was asked of all of them by Sir Alan, and they must all have known that they would be required to work at Brentwood as the last part of the challenge. Personally I couldn't have left my kids for the 12 weeks or so of the series - compared with that relocation doesn't seem a particularly big deal!

Yes Nooka but some of the questions Katie was asked by one of the interviewers related directly to her as a mother, not to whether she could relocate. I don't know whether it would count as an 'official' interview but you definitely aren't allowed to discriminate on the grounds of gender when interviewing. Tre wasn't asked how being a father affected his work. It was only sralan who brought up the commuting distance thing with Katie - not the rottweillers interviewing her beforehand. Apart from that, I thought they did a very good job - completely cut through the crap and exposed her plan for meedja domination.

i think the questions about parenting were more about location - tre and simon live in london - the girls would need to move.

i thought katie was excellent - such a laugh. I dont take her seriously at all although I would keep my husband well clear!

bra woman was dreadful - complete sense of humour failure. Kirsty Wark made far more intelligent observations.

I quite like sralans londoner adviser who quizzed simon on his landlord thing and tre on his international business man thing - he was very funny and to the point!

Excellent episode yesterday but it leaves me with a bad aftertaste.

It is clear that we women can't have everything. The fact that they had children was a big issue for both Katie and and Christina but not so for Tre. In the programme (perhaps it was just the edit?) both of the women were asked aobut their family arrangements but none of the men were. Both Christina felt compelled to defend themselves for having kids, Katie with the 'I would hate being called a mother' and 'I've done the children bit' and Christina with her my sons grown up now and now it's 'christina' time. It seems both were worried that having children would affect their chances of landing the top job. Not so for Tre.

I wondered that when the one interviewer asked Katie about her priorities in life, which was clearly a loaded question, if he had a family and what his priorities were?

Katie did not only have to step down because Sr Alan called her bluff but also because she needed to sort out childcare arrangements.

Anyway, I just left feeling that we women alsway have to make that choice between children or high-flying career whereas men can have it all. ON a personal note, I had to give up my career when our dd daughter was born and won't be able to move up much further when I go back to work whereas hubby not only continued in his job but has since received a promotion. He still has everything plus a daughter wehreas I had to make a huge sacrifice. It's just not fair and I guess last night's programme just brought all of this up.

IS that because they are single parents though? If Tre for example was a single parent bringing up his child (having custody) I suspect they would ask the same thing - I honestly dont think it's a equal opp issue and don't think it should be made into one

I don't think Katie had to step down. Sir Alan called her bluff (about wanting to win, but not commit to his firm) and cleverly threw in the childcare card so she had a vauguely plausible reason to step down.

perhaps I'm just too sensitive about the issue.

OK well I have a theory here that I concocted over quite a few cups of tea with some friends this morning.

I think that sralan and his interview cronies had an informal off camera chat pre-filiming. I think he decided to fire Katie, but some bright TV spark (someone who knows what makes good TV) thought hang on....lets get Katie in on this and tell her she is going to be fired.

We'll then do this whole elaborate 'you're through to the final Katie but with huge reservations because your nasty' and she'll do 'Oh thankyou sralan' and then sit there looking thoughful and glum while Tre is being fired, and then there'll be the 'I'm not being fair on my children/parents/yousralan/the other contestents' malarkey and 'I graciously withdraw'.

It's win-win-win isn't it.

Katie wins as she will always be the woman who turned it down

Sralan wins because he never wanted her anyway

And the BBC wins big time because it was really excellent TV.

cunning eh? well that's my thoughts on it.

If Katie was planning on going into the final and maybe winning it, childcare would not have been a problem, she would/could have sorted it. But to suddenly think, crickes I've got to move to London last minute is abit weak. I believe she a) wanted to look the hero and b) will do everything in her power to help Simon to win next week as no way does she want Kristina to win. Maybe thats why she stood down? as instead of being the opposition she can really dig deep and team up to really help Simon.

I think that the children aspect was brought up by both women (although we only got highlights, so difficult to tell). Kristina because it was obviously very important for her (being both proud of what she had acheived and also feeling that it had limited her choices earlier in her career) difficult to say why Katie brought it up - I thought it odd that she should say that her children were the most important thing in her life and then retrat that seconds later - not sure what game she was playing then. I wonder if she had been advised she wasn't coming across very well - or maybe it ws just part of her flirting technique with that chap. Tre on the other hand looked surprised to be asked about his home life (he looked quite sheepish to be told his wife thought him lazy) In any case the chap who was most agressive in asking those questions, also recommended them both (he was the one who really backed Katie). I got the impression that the interviews were mostly driven by what the candidates had put on their applications, and obviously some of that was just about getting noticed (like Katie's odious remark showing her pride in stealing other people's husbands).

With regards to the interviews I think the questions were probably 90% this is going to make good soundbite TV?, and 10% are you actually the most suitable person to fill this position?

Which leads me on to ask, what actually is the job in the organisation that they get?

Head of creche facilities...or maybe not

what does 'single mum' mean in her case, though? is the dad dead? is he uninvolved in his children's care? who's been looking after them for the last three months?

and LOL at Michelle Mone, millionaire super-businesswoman... just ask the Bank of Scotland, by common consent they're always just a day away from getting her ticket in...

I happen to know that Sralan put Katie in a corner and told her to think seriously about whether or not she wanted the job and is she wanted to reach the final. She had to leave the room and think about it and was put under pressure during that episode although you don't see her leaving and entering the room. I think she wanted a media career and entered as a contestant to raise her own profile and Sralan knowing that a) he didn't want to employ her and b) she didn't want to genuinely work for him he then put her in a corner and gave her the opportunity to back down. She got her media exposure and he got rid of her!!!!!!!

Why go to all this trouble. If he didn't want her anyway, why didn't he fire her earlier? Do we think the BBC put him under pressure to keep her in because she made good TV?

Chicpea - you're the receptionist by the boardroom aren't you

I know one of the contestants!!!!!!! Truly.

I had to hide from all media yesterday as I hadn't seen it but watched it last night. Dissappointing ending, felt very sorry I felt sorry for Kristina, she surely was the better pick. If Sralan watched it as well he will see that Simon did NOTHING for his team. Rory seemed to come up with the idea and the way it should be presented etc. Simon begrudgingly went along with it and was still being a wet biscuit at the end. The only consulation for Kristina, even though she desperately wanted it. Without a shadow of a doubt The Badger from last year probably should have won also, but has done alright for herself. Kristina is very employable and surely has nothing to worry about. Has come out of this in a very good light.