Celeb Big Bro Thread 2 - Courtney's audition for the Bucks Fizz tribute act wasn't quite what they were looking for...

[AnneEyhtMeyer]

Yes, I know it is a shock to discover CBB celebrities famous for something other than being on other reality shows, but there are some in the house this year! It is a miracle!

Still no shopping lists, decent long-lasting tasks and lack of BB interference but we can't have everything can we?

PWBs - pull up a chair (from your favourite Oak furniture dealer), grab your snacks and get stuck in!

One too many is's in there!

And who is the arbiter in this 'debate'?

Oh let me fucking guess.....

haidees but if you didn't know the person all you'd have to go from in judging the gender of the person is how they present themselves or identify themselves, you wouldn't ask them what biological bits they were born with (assuming for the sake of argument that their apprearences did not indicate that they were biologically born of a different sex).

thehair that's my point. It's this exact argument that people are debating. Can you only call yourself woman if you've been born biologically female? What makes us female, is it just nature? Should genders be more fluid? Not all men act on male privalege! They're not all Neanderthals! This is the debate that is going on in society. Your statement is an opinion of what you consider to be fact. It's not what everyone agrees with

assigned you're being a tad aggressive. I'm not sure there's any need for it. At no point have I said my opinion is the word. I'm just saying "personally I find such and such offensive and personally my opinion is such and such" but I'll happily bow out if my minority (on here) opinion is apparently not allowed and is just going to be met with aggression and abuse...

Your opinion is allowed missrabbit, what people don't like is you telling us what we are allowed to say.

And by the way, ironically aren't those ^ the traits that people are accusing IW and her "male privalege" of???

We know exactly what a woman is, so stop with all the gaslighting fuckwittery. We don't need to see someone's wanger before we know it is a male. Very few 'pass'.

Biology makes us female. Pure and simple

I'll make it simple for you. No matter how many bits uou cut off or add to a human, ypu can not turn them into something else. A man will always be a man and a woman will always be a woman. I've had a total hysterectomy and my friend has also had one, plus a double mastectomy. We are still women.

I don't believe in gender because it's making women and men fit into little boxes. I believe in sex.

Regarding India's touching/hugging. I noticed she does it when she wants to shut down or finish a conversation.
I also noticed in the legislation conversations last night, she didn't engage because she's out of her depth with it.

I don't think I've told anyone what they can say. That's a bit of a dramatic statement. I've just said some of the posts are a bit offensive, (but not the entire debate). Which is why some posts may have been removed. I'm just pointing out also what is currently seen as being acceptable or PC. I didn't make those rules. I'm just pointing out that some of what is being said Is offensive. I'm allowed to say I personally find it offensive aren't I?

Miss
Do feel free to report any posts you think are abusive.

I am fucking angry though. I'm angry with women like you who are happy to enter in fuckwittery to remove rights from women.

I am female because of my biology. I didn't wake up one day and decide I was female. I didn't spent my childhood yearning for dolls and ribbons. I spent it playing the few bloody toys my family could afford, including lego and cardboard boxes. And the men who sexually assaulted me didn't ask if I had a fanny and a uterus beforehand. There was no 'debate about whether I was a woman. God knows I would have denied it if I could.

It's a bloody nonsense. Stop selling women out

Watching on catch up so sorry if this has been way over-discusesd already, but did they not think that maybe the two single beds were given the two oldest women for reasons other than "respect for your elders" and maybe because of the biological reality of what happens to bladder control etc. in the night as you get older and that maybe someone who has never shared a bed with someone doesn't want to start now, on television, whilst wearing a tena lady or something more heavy duty. So selfish! Sorry - had to get that out here as DH is a bit about me watching CBB so no one to discuss it with - have not watched a celebrity one since Vanessa Feltz started to lose the plot a bit - that was years ago!

You're welcome to say what you want and go along with all the fantasies you want. The fact that posters refuse to accept your fantasies as our reality shall not change.

TIMs do not care how women feel, when they bully their way into female spaces, so I couldn't care less if they're offended when I use the correct pronouns, as in, a TIM is a man and a TIF is a woman.

Quite right Perf
I will not be compelled to use incorrect pronouns. I will use them as a courtesy as and when I see fit, but certainly not to entitled fuckers who call me names and demand I act in a certain way.

They don't give a fuck when I say it offends me to be called 'cis'. Or TERF.

Or die in a fire

Can you only call yourself woman if you've been born biologically female? What makes us female, is it just nature? Should genders be more fluid? Not all men act on male privalege! They're not all Neanderthals! This is the debate that is going on in society. Your statement is an opinion of what you consider to be fact. It's not what everyone agrees with

The Oxford dictionary definition of 'woman' is 'adult human female'. I'm not sure you can get more clear than that.

assigned to be honest I can't be arsed to go back and copy and paste all your abusive or aggressive posts / ones in which you've sworn at me. You talk about me selling women out. I don't agree that being tolerant of trans women is selling women out. But that's my opinion. And I am a feminist, who fights quite passionately for equality so please don't assume I would in any way fight against women's rights.

I also strongly believe that it is perfectly possible that some people are born believing they should be the other sex and never feeling that they fit in with their gender. I can't imagine that would be nice for them and I would want to be supportive of them trying to pursue happiness. I don't think that demeans women.

I'm sorry you were abused and I'm sorry you had little money growing up I'm afraid those things don't make your argument more valid - for example, how can you possibly know that I have experienced these things too?

Anyway I'm off to Tesco now. Maybe I should leave this thread to be an echo chamber rather than voicing the other side of the debate?

Thehair just quickly - if female bits are the definition technically IW does have constructed female parts...

some people are born believing they should be the other sex and never feeling that they fit in with their gender. I can't imagine that would be nice for them and I would want to be supportive of them trying to pursue happiness

As are we. Doesn't mean you can change your sex though.

if female bits are the definition technically IW does have constructed female parts...

At the most basic level xx chromosomes are the definition. IW does not have constructed female parts, she has constructed facsimiles of female parts.

What makes us female, is it just nature?

Yes. It's our biology. Biology that has been used as a means of oppression for thousands of years. Except now we are being told that 'biology doesn't matter' and that 'there's more to being a woman than biology'.

Really?

Tell that to all the baby girls who were murdered at birth in China.
Tell that to Malala Yousafzai
Tell that to the Chibok schoolgirls kidnapped by Boko Haram
Tell that to every woman in this country who has been discriminated against because of their reproductive capacities.
Tell that to every woman who thinks twice before going out whether or not their outfit is 'appropriate' enough not to get raped.
Tell that to the girls who can't go to school because they are too poor to afford sanitary protection.
Tell that to the girls in Rochdale that Maggie Oliver worked with.

Tell them that 'woman' is just a 'social concept'. Ask them if they know what makes them 'female'.

Miss
I'm sorry you were abused and I'm sorry you had little money growing up I'm afraid those things don't make your argument more valid

That was not the point of that sentence as well you know.

But that's your manipulation right there. Disgusting behaviour. I'm done with you.

Missrabbit respect to you going against the grain, it isn't easy!
I do think you raise some good points for me personally, like the comments on India's physical appearance. To me, it isn't kind to comment on how anyone looks.
I see you mean well, are liberal and accept what you're trying to do, but all it is, is that you don't really understand Feminism. I think if you looked deeper into feminist perspectives, you would 'get' it.

Yup. sorry you were abused, 'but your feelings aren't as important as the poor TIMs'. That's the gist of what you're saying, isn't it?

I think it might be a good idea (following the brilliant example of Shane and Ann!) to agree to disagree here, I don't think we are getting anywhere.

Missrabbit, you have a right to state your opinion, just not to tell us not to state ours, which I'm quite sure is what your 14.01 post (calling posters trolls) implied.

I do agree that some of the comments on India's appearance have been unnecessary on this thread. There is plenty to say without going into that!

But this idea that 'woman' and 'man' are just abstract, fluid concepts really makes my piss fizz and is really offensive to all females who have been oppressed because of their sex and weren't able to identify their way out of that.

Courtney is great because he is a man who is smashing gender stereotypes of how a man should perform, without reinforcing those stereotypes by saying 'I'm actually a woman'.