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Lassies of Lallybroch in the Caribbean - The Outlander Discussion Thread - Spoilers Ahoy

927 replies

MoNigheanDonn · 28/11/2017 07:51

New thread lassies for all things Jamie and Claire (and all things in between).

Only two episodes left! Hope everyone enjoyed episode 11.

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ToniMumsnet · 05/12/2017 19:24

I thought it was interesting how they weaved the story into this episode. I am so glad they did away with the stupid murder storyline and Jamie playing at a foppish dandy.
But not happy with Jamie getting arrested at the end. Was that really necessary?

I just get fed up with these endless plot devices to separate the two of them.

Marsali · 05/12/2017 20:49

The plot repetition is really annoying but I think the writers will do their best to tie up all the loose ends. If they had stuck to the books and had Mr Willoughby do it, it wouldn't really have solved the problem of the creme de menthe etc.

Can't quite remember how that panned out in the books. Was the body in the cask just never found?

Lessstressedhemum · 05/12/2017 21:06

No, it was never found. At least not that Jamie and Claire ever found out about. In one of the spin off books, I think, there is mention of someone finding a body in a cask of creme De months and then putting it on display in a tank of alcohol.

AKAmyself · 05/12/2017 21:42

finally watched. Having a pretty shitty week and perhaps that's colouring my judgement a bit but found it a bit disappointing, I didn't like the claustrophobic atmosphere of the ball (although i'm guessing that was the point).

The goat's blood bath was creepy and yucky and brilliant. Geillis was properly unhinged and both scary and sexy at the same time. She looked old at the ball, and i wasn't sure whether her very obvious wig was meant to be an obvious wig or it was just a total costume fail?

Did enjoy all the LJG bits. It makes sense to me that jamie feels something akin to affection (if not love!) for him, after all, how many male friends that he genuinely respects and trusts does he have? And LJG has been very good to him, not to mention he's willie's foster dad, Jamie would want to know everything he can about his son.

CB looked INCREDIBLE in this episode, she is so beautiful.

And I got a few moments of Fergus love and now hoping the screenwriters will dow with Fersali what they did with Murtagh, i.e. realise they have a winner on their hand and expand their roles in the show vs the book.

But i can't say i loved this episode, much less than the previous one, thats for sure. can't believe we have one more and then it's droughtlander again!

JuneFromBethesda · 05/12/2017 21:59

Well, I thought it was a dog's dinner of an episode. It didn't grip me at all and it just didn't feel like a coherent whole, more a collection of ridiculous loose ends that the writers were desperately trying to weave into something resembling a plot (I'm blaming DG here).

Geillis' accent was very very shaky. She did look fucking scary though.

Jamie's power, like Samson, is clearly contained in his hair - with a greyish wig on he loses half his appeal!

I don't know - it felt rushed and scrappy to me. Even the ball, it just felt as though they'd all put on some fancy dress costumes - I just didn't believe in it the way I believed in the Scottish scenes in S1, or the French scenes in S2.

Hmph. A bit disappointed Sad

JuneFromBethesda · 05/12/2017 22:01

I rather wish at this point the screenwriters would just head off in their own direction entirely and forget the books - I'm sure they could come up with something much more convincing ...

CourtneyLoveIsMySpiritAnimal · 05/12/2017 22:08

Jamie's power, like Samson, is clearly contained in his hair - with a greyish wig on he loses half his appeal!

Grin Weirdly, I thought that was his best wig all season!

Agree that they should try and diverge from the books. Trying to follow them this series has led to some strange pacing with repetition of the same tired old plot lines. J & C get separated! Jamie gets arrested! Claire's in mortal peril! There's a danger someone might be raped! Jamie's jealous! Now Claire's jealous!

Hate to say it, but I'm losing a bit of patience with it.

CourtneyLoveIsMySpiritAnimal · 05/12/2017 22:19

Have to add that it might possibly benefit from a binge watch when it's ended, but I don't think I cba ploughing through the Boston eps again Confused

DryWhiteagainW · 05/12/2017 22:22

Bloody hell I thought I'd killed the thread, you'd all disappeared through the stones and left me to talk Outlander to myself Shock

Well, I've caught up. All very interesting.

I agree with you:

LOVE Fersali, love love love them. Fergus looked fabulous in his evening wear. The wedding was lovey too.
..
Couldn't stop looking at Gellis' hideous wig at the ball......and I'm in awe of Lotte V d B incredible figure even covered in fake goats blood

So nice to se e LJG. Love him. BUT I don't buy the sexual undertones at all . I just never believed that Jamie would ever offer himself to any man, even one who has offered to care for his son. It's the only bit so far that really doesn't work and I read somewhere that the writers actually altered that scene quite close to filming.

I agree that overall I'm enjoying this season more than S2. It's because J and C are properly reconnected.

DryWhiteagainW · 05/12/2017 22:25

Thank you Snozzle for finding me and bringing me back Smile

snozzlemaid · 05/12/2017 22:30

Couldn't have you all alone on the old thread. Thought I'd better point you in the right direction.

DryWhiteagainW · 05/12/2017 22:36
Flowers

Talking of which, Marsali's bouquet was disappointing.....looked like a load of green weeds. Claire had orchids in her hair at the ball.....surely they could have found something a bit more attractive in the vicar's garden/jungle!!!!

Also, I love how pretty M's dresses are. Very feminine and young.....suit her well. The costume people are brilliant.

CourtneyLoveIsMySpiritAnimal · 05/12/2017 22:36

I just never believed that Jamie would ever offer himself to any man, even one who has offered to care for his son

Funny you should say that (I agree with you by the way) as I read an interview with the guy who plays LJG and he said that apparently Sam was quite surprised at that scene as well. It's a ridiculous notion when you think about it, especially after everything Jamie went through with BJR.

Interview here if anyone's interested
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/ew.com/tv/2017/12/03/outlander-david-berry-lord-john-love-triangle/amp//*

DryWhiteagainW · 05/12/2017 22:38

That's the article I read courtney........

Lessstressedhemum · 06/12/2017 11:20

I don't know. I think that Jamie was offering John the only thing of value that he had, himself, knowing that John wouldn't accept. In a later book, he tells Claire that it was a test to see if he could trust John with Willie. If John had accepted, he, Jamie, would have killed him. He does fleetingly kiss him, though, and then says something like, "I'm maybe not poisoned, then."

I think that they respect each other a lot. You can watch their relationship develop in the side books, which give you a nice bit of background. Poor John never truly moves on, though he does have other relationships, a couple of them deep and meaningful ones.

I| thought that Jamie looked quite good in that wig, it was certainly better than the awful ones that he was wearing at the start of the season. It did a mighty fine job of showing of his bone structure and the whole point of it was to hide his red hair. I think Geillis's one was supposed to be an obvious wig, part of her formal ball attire. Huge wigs were a thing in those days, I think.

The whole get separated, get rescued thing goes on all through all the books. SOmetimes, I think, for ony peace, can DG not think of something else to do? Can they not just live quietly for a while. BUT, the snatches of happiness keep you hooked.

CourtneyLoveIsMySpiritAnimal · 06/12/2017 14:08

I don't know. I think that Jamie was offering John the only thing of value that he had, himself, knowing that John wouldn't accept. In a later book, he tells Claire that it was a test to see if he could trust John with Willie

If that's implying what I think it's implying, that's fucking outrageous.

AKAmyself · 06/12/2017 14:47

The more I think about it the less I enjoyed this episode. I just couldn’t buy the sense of danger as being real and I think that they could have actually streamlined further - ie gotten rid of the whole Slaves sub-plot.

I loved the first half of the season, yes even Boston, liked the middle part a lot, and I guess we just have to crack through the last couple of episodes to get through what needs to be gotten through. In this sense I’m really glad they chose to give time and space to the first 1/3 of the book over the rest of the batshit crazy stuff.

I have high hopes for season 4... at least until I remember Sophie Skelton :(

Lessstressedhemum · 07/12/2017 09:26

Courtney, it is a bit outrageous, really. Jamie says that he was trying to find out what was n John's soul, but a couple of times in the books it is mentioned that perhaps John is only looking after Willie "for the sake of his father." In fact, I think Claire actually says somewhere that perhaps John would "use " William because of his resemblance to Jamie. Thankfully, he quickly disabuses her of the notion.

There are a few very dubious ideas floated in some of the books and there is a bit of an undercurrent of homophobia, particularly from Claire. Jamie always sticks up for John, though, after getting over his initial disgust.

quirkychick · 07/12/2017 10:32

On a complete side track, Less I am making your elderberry and ginger syrup this morning. The house smells gorgeous!

Lessstressedhemum · 07/12/2017 12:00

Hope you enjoy it, quirky, and that the vitamin boost helps stave off the lurgy.

Thinking a bit more about the Jamie/John thing. AKA is right. jamie has very few real male friends. he is a brother, an uncle, a leader etc. but not really a friend to anyone except Iain Mor, and even then, he is related to him. John is someone who is educated, like Jamie, is from the same social strata, has military and leadership experience, served overseas etc. They actually have a lot in common and it's not surprising that they are friends. He also treated |Jamie well and did the best he could to give him a comfortable life, even when he was in effect, a prisoner. Then there is the debt that he feels he owes him for Willie. That would only tighten the bond.
Re. the homophobia, I think that was probably pretty standard for the time. It was a capital crime to be gay and gay men were thought to be untrustworthy perverts. In Scottish Prisoner, I think, Jamie talks about john's unholy lust being the reason that he, Jamie, wasn't transported and there are lots of incidences of nastiness aimed at "mollies" in the side books. Maybe DG is just trying to reflect that, otherwise it's all a bt grim.

CourtneyLoveIsMySpiritAnimal · 07/12/2017 12:55

Jamie having a friend; excellent! We're all on board with that.

Said friend being in love with Jamie; whhyyy?!

Jamie is attractive and noble etc. etc. It doesn't mean everyone around him has to want to get him in the sack as soon as they possibly can. Of course, this is all DG's weird fantasies playing out on the page again.

I didn't really give a rat's bum about John in the book, but I really like the actor who's playing him on screen and want to see more of him. But I don't like the jealousy/love triangle aspect of it all. The show seems to be making even more of it too. The way Jamie was looking at John at the ball was way off the mark. And then the sapphire thing - 'Oh here's that sapphire you gave me. I keep it here, right next to my balls and think about you often. Put that in pipe and smoke it, bish, I can't see your precious jewel' 🙄

(Not ranting at you less btw, but these plots/storylines are so frustrating)

Lessstressedhemum · 07/12/2017 13:15

I know, DG can't seem to imagine a world where everyone doesn't want to jump him. I don't care about John one way or another in the main books, but I do quite like the LJG books. He is much more interesting in them. The love triangle thing goes on for years and years, but a lot of it is in Claire's head. She is reeking with jealousy.

In the books, John has the sapphire set in a paperweight, which is odd enough. Having it on that wee thing was distinctly weird and creepy.

quirkychick · 07/12/2017 13:19

Haha Courtney I think you've pretty much summed up DG's weird fantasies. A bit like, DG absolutely wants Jamie so every other character must want to ravish him too Hmm.

Less the elderberry and ginger is delicious. Even dp likes it, who doesn't like honey or cloves Grin. It might become a staple in our house. Thank you so much.

LittleDorritt · 07/12/2017 14:31

"Oh here's that sapphire you gave me. I keep it here, right next to my balls". Grin Grin Grin Oh my lord, I can't watch that scene ever again. I am crying.

LittleDorritt · 07/12/2017 14:37

Well, controversially, I really enjoyed that episode and I loved the smouldering looks between Jamie and John. Catriona had Claires' WTAF face down to perfection.
DG has run so far with Jamie being the king of men that it makes sense that he is irresistible to everyone.
Geillis was fab. I've always had a soft spot for her. I did think that Lotte's accent wasn't quite as good as S1 though. But my word, that arse!!

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