Lassies of Lallybroch in the Caribbean - The Outlander Discussion Thread - Spoilers Ahoy

[MoNigheanDonn]

New thread lassies for all things Jamie and Claire (and all things in between).

Only two episodes left! Hope everyone enjoyed episode 11.

Duncan turns out to be a bit of an arsehole in later books so I am divided.

I did read that they aren't going to stick as closely to the books from now on though, plus Season 5 hasn't been commissioned. So who knows.

Murtagh also looked pretty sick when we saw him last.

See, I don't know about Murtagh. Jamie has new sidekicks in Book 4, so what would Murtagh's role be. Can't be doing with Duncan, he is a bit of a tube.

I'm half way through book 5 at the moment, so still plenty of time for Duncan to be an arsehole!

I can see why they would need to stray further from the books later on. The narrative arc is nowhere near as strong - at least as far as I have read. It will have to be compressed to make it viable and watchable.

Make that 1/2 way through book 6.

mateysmum the narrative arc is nowhere near as strong too right

They live on Fraser's Ridge, some bad things happen and Jamie rescues Claire. I hope the screenwriters do their magic again on some of the interminable bits of plot, the Gathering and the aptly named Great Dismal, I'm looking at you. Some of the War of Independence is a bit confusing too, I'm sure there must be other historical novels which make it more exciting.

They live on Fraser's Ridge, some bad things happen and Jamie rescues Claire

Quirky you forgot - Claire performs many medical miracles. Series 6 could be more like 24 hrs in A&E.

I don't see the show lasting for 10 seasons so 4/5 gives them time to wrap it up nicely (I hope). Either that or they need to recast CB and SH so that Jamie and Claire can look somewhat like their ages. Plus the difficulties of finding a William.

I love Fraser's Ridge, with the animals and all the mad medical carryings on. There better be an Adso, a Clarence and a demonic white sow.

I forgot, Claire "invents" anaesthetic and antibiotics ahead of time, and lots of shagging .

I can't see it going on for so many seasons, really. I read all the books because I wanted to know what happened, but I think that they would have to tighten up the plot quite a bit to make it work. Re-watching the first season, made me realise that it had a much better structure, all the will Claire stay or not, the lead up to the rising and Culloden, the run ins with BJR... By S3 the screenwriters had to tighten up the plot considerably, especially some of the dodgy bits with Genevra and Laoghaire.

They will have to tighten up the plot A LOT, if they go past Drums. Although, I read something the other day where some Starz big wig was saying that they were completely committed to making lots of seasons, so it might go to season 6. After that the whole story takes a new direction and there's all the Bree and Roger at Lallybroch guff as well as the Revolutionary War stuff. That and there isn't one real baddie, just lots of minor sort of bad guys. No one with the impact of Jack Randall or even Stephen Bonnet.

I don't think aging Sam and Caitriona should pose too big a problem, they are eternally youthful anyway. In MOBY, she sets off to seduce the British commander in a tight frock that shows off her "fine bosom" when she is 62 and Jamie is just a sex god all the time, who does everything better than men half his age while looking like a ginger Adonis.

Can't be doing with the mad medical stuff, no wonder folk are terrified of Claire, but I love the animals and the whole pastoral thing they have going on. If only we could get rid of whingy Brianna back to the future never to be seen again. Also can't much be doing with William who seems to spend most of the time wallowing in self pity.

I know, the plot needs an overhaul in later books, Less. I think DG only keeps on writing them because we all keep reading them, hoping they'll be as good as the earlier ones.

Currently watching "We're not in Scotland any more" and enjoying the "Mark me"s.

I watched The Reckoning last night. There is a very good reason that it's my favourite episode. I thought my knickers were going to burst into flames. My eyes were definitely scorched.

Haha, I watched that last week, I can't think what bit you mean . I've just watched Untimely Resurrection, BJR with Claire is just so good, all that bit about he thinks the fates have brought them together. I do get annoyed at Claire trying to spare BJR for Frank's sake, it's a bit much to ask. Though, I do like the idea that what's written in the past is not always what's happened, e.g. Frank is descended from Alex not BJR, and later the notice in the paper about the fire on Fraser's Ridge.

Just saying hi before you drop off my watch list! Planning on starting book 2 next week.

The whole keeping frank alive thing burns my biscuits. He is an arse and Claire keeps prioritising him over Jamie. It's a bit too far, really. Although, the paradox is interesting. If Frank isn't born, she will never marry him and then never be in Scotland for Beltane.

I think that I just struggle to see past my dislike for Frank and his patronising, misogynistic, adulterous, racist twattishness. And he was definitely unfaithful to her during the war when she was at the front line

I feel sorry for Frank (although I may have been swayed by Tobias Menzies' fantastic portrayal). I can excuse his affairs, both in the War when you didn't know whether you'd be alive from one moment to the next, and after Claire came back. Who'd want to live in a loveless marriage where you'll never come anything but second best to your daughter's real father?

He was ill used by Claire. Jamie and Claire both talked about using Frank as a escape route if things got rough during the uprising. There was no need for DG to make him misogynistic or racist. He was never, ever going to measure up to Jamie and he must have had some good qualities otherwise Claire would never have married him or tried to get back to him.

I would love to see the story from his point of view. Imagine his AIBU. We'd all be telling him to dump her ass.

Should also have added that that doesn't mean that Claire stepping in to save BJR all the time doesn't get on my tits (apart from in The Reckoning when she urged Jamie to shoot him because she was in danger 🙄). I just think Frank's been hard done by by DG and the other characters. He also very convienently dies when his usefulness is done.

Also, thanks to whoever mentioned the cray-cray shipper tumblrs upthread. I think I've lost hours reading their insane conspiracy theories about S&C's releationship/s. Never really been interested in the actors outside of the show but the tumblrs are strangely addictive. I've had to delete them so I can get some housework done 😬

Yes, he was badly used by Claire. I don't know why she stayed with him, she certainly didn't want to. That was very cruel of her. It was a bad situation for both of them. BUT, he treated her badly as well. He is so patronising, what he wanted was a traditional little wife to stay at home and iron his underwear, but she had been changed irrevocably both by the war and her time with Jamie. She was a girl of 19 when she married him, by the time she came back, she was a 30 year old woman and, personally, I don't think Frank had really bargained on that.

The whole thing is actually awful. Imagine being the child brought up in such a toxic environment. No wonder Brianna is a pain in the bum.

Hello lassies, can I please join you? I binge watched all three seasons on Amazon Prime over the course of a week, so you can probably tell I'm a bit obsessed (and very behind with work)!

I don't think I'll be reading the books though, as that would be a step too far, you ken? What can I do to fill the gap?!

I wonder if Claire wants to save Frank partly from guilt, as she chose to stay with Jamie. It still really annoys me that she asks it of Jamie, after what happened with BJR.

Just watching Faith, it always makes me cry, both the mc and poor Fergus. The whole of the Paris adventure is a disaster, really. I like Maitre Raymond, there are all sorts of hints that he, too, is some kind of traveller and that they will meet again.

Off work today as I'm ill so I've had a day in bed rewatching season 1. Made me forget how ill I'm feeling for a while.
I don't think any other season will ever be as good.

I agree snozzle Still working my way through S1 (I'm stringing it out for as long as possible) and (apart from the last couple of episodes) it's literally perfection. I'm almost at the stage where I want to forget the other seasons exist because they kind of ruin S1.

I just want to pretend J & C sail to France and live happily ever after with their future family

S1, they take their time establishing the story etc. having watched up to Faith in S2, I can see how much more pacy each episode is. I will be interested in seeing how S3 stands up to binge-watching.

Going back to the Claire and Frank thing, I think many women were expected to put aside their new found freedoms after WW2 and come back into the home. I imagine many marriages of the time were none too happy, as the spouses had both been changed considerably by the effects of war. Also, the pressures in the 1950s of staying married would have been much greater, divorce was quite scandalous. The tv show makes Frank's affair a single love affair, but in the books, Frank is a serial adulterer. They both stay in a miserable, loveless marriage, but that wouldn't have been unusual .

I think that's exactly right, quirky. It was a bad time to be in an unhappy marriage. I think it's easier to dismiss Frank's affair in the show because it is one long term relationship where they were in love. It's all the short affairs, particularly with his students, that are so repellent in the books. The women involved seem to have been carried away by the glamour and romance of an affair with an older man and seem, in some cases to be heavily invested in the relationship. Frank never had any intention of leaving Claire and was, effectively, just using the women. .not very nice

And Claire was in no way willing to play the role of wife and mother, not after the war and her time in C18th. She was a very different woman and Frank, in common with many husbands of the time, wasn't ready for that.

The show has to make Frank more bearable, I think, or else we wouldn't believe that Claire would be trying to get back to him or willing to stay with him.

I think when Claire married Frank, she looked up to him and was happy to play the conventional wife. Her wartime experiences meant she grew up and never quite fit that mold again. In the 18th century and with Jamie she is the opposite of conventional and Jamie loves her feisty nature and her courage. A side of her that Frank never saw.

I just downloaded Book 7 (Echo) and I see that it's over 1000 pages on kindle!

I may be gone some time....

In the books, and to some extent in the show, quite a bit is made of Claire's unconventional upbringing with her Uncle Lamb. Travelling around the world on archeological sites, she wasn't exactly reared for playing the wife at home!

In the first book, it's understandable at the beginning, that she is still trying to get back to Frank, as she's been uprooted and is trying to get home. In the books, Frank initially stays with Claire because "only a cad" would abandon a pg woman, the show makes it much more about Frank loving Claire (or his idea of her) but her not able to love him back any longer.

That's true mateysmum, Claire can be herself with Jamie.