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Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 7 discussion thread *SPOILERS*

595 replies

OlennasWimple · 27/08/2017 12:04

CAUTION - HERE BE DRAGONS (PROBABLY) AND SPOILERS!

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 7 "THE DRAGON AND THE WOLF"

Come and discuss the very last episode in the penultimate series, airing August 27th at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6.

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones.

OP posts:
JAPAB · 01/09/2017 19:11

Summer and Shaggydog (and Rickon) are still alive in the books.

Only until book 6 comes out, most likely. As for the theory that Bran brings an end to winter I think the titles of the ramining books suggest otherwise? The Winds Of Winter and A Dream Of Spring. That last one suggests to me that they will be deep in winter at that point.

On another note, A Dream Of Spring is a great title, if indeed they are deep in winter and longing for the change.

AryaUnderfoot · 01/09/2017 19:16

I wouldn't be surprised if GRRM didn't keep Rickon alive as a big middle finger to D&D. He's already said that there are several characters that he tends to keep alive that D&D have killed off.

They have already made it clear that they don't know the fates of many of the secondary characters in the books.

jonsnowsbuttocks · 01/09/2017 19:34

Middle finger away grrm, I'm happy to keep Rickon

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OlennasWimple · 01/09/2017 20:49

But if Rickon stays alive, he has a claim to Winterfell over Sansa.... (I think everyone is in agreement that Bran is given up his claim in order to concentrate on being a knowitall)

OP posts:
AryaUnderfoot · 01/09/2017 20:58

OlennasWimple I think Rickon will become the Lord of Winterfell with Sansa acting as a regent until he comes of age.

Her story was always about being someone else's prize 'Lady' and it's clear in the show that she wants none of that any more and wants to go it alone (who can blame her).

In 'real life' Westeros that option would rarely be available to a woman of her birth and she'd be under great pressure to marry. Maege Mormont managed to find a different path but there are few others, and she still went on to have heirs. Olenna Redwyne married an idiot to keep her finger on the control button but that didn't work so well (unless you consider Mace a great success).

Sansa could marry Sweetrobin to do the same (shudders) but I think it's unlikely. In the show I think she'll be a 'solo woman' and be happy for it. In the books I think she may follow a similar path but as guardian to Rickon who can fulfil the 'there must always be a Stark in winterfell' by reproducing with some spirited Manderly.

JPTB · 01/09/2017 21:19

Anyone else desperately want the boxed then released Whitewalker that ran at Cersei to just get her?! Surely Team Targ/Snow missed a trick there!

jonsnowsbuttocks · 01/09/2017 21:53

I just keep laughing at the bit where he shows Sam the scroll after he asks if he saw it in a vision.

jonsnowsbuttocks · 01/09/2017 21:55

Haha Jptb you are so right there

bluegrape · 01/09/2017 22:02

SweetRobin isn't going to be happy about Littlefinger!

AryaUnderfoot · 01/09/2017 22:12

Show-Sweetrobin is an utter contrivance to dig D&D out of the enormous hole they dug for themselves by shoe-horning Sansa into Jeyne Poole's storyline. Book-Sweetrobin is terrified of Littlefinger and loathes him - with good reason (he's likely trying to slowly poison him).

If show-Sweetrobin ever appears again it is likely he will just not mention Littlefinger at all - just like how the entire Stark family has managed an entire season without once uttering the word 'Rickon'.

JPTB · 01/09/2017 22:18

Loving your name, jonsnowsbuttocks!
And yay I'm not the only one - no one would have seen it coming either, and she'd get a horrible deserved death.

AryaUnderfoot · 01/09/2017 22:25

I agree that the Wight should have been left to kill Cersei. The Hound could just have said 'oops' and that would have been it.

Un-Gregor was decidedly slow. That gives hope for all those Cleganebowl fans.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 02/09/2017 08:50

Littlefinger in the books is perving on Sansa disgustingly.

I really hope Rickon makes it! After all, Ramsay is currently snowed in at Winterfell, without Rickon, and has sent Jon the pink letter. They must be gearing up for the Battle of the Bastards, and I don't see how Rickon could be involved (Davos will save him!).

The Jon/Dany/Hound contingent are far too honourable to let the Wight kill Cersei, more's the pity.

AryaUnderfoot · 02/09/2017 10:01

Yes, I think the battle for Winterfell is going to play out very differently in the books and will be over long before Rickon and Davos return.

I think D&D had to kill off Rickon in order for Jon to be named King in the North. If Rickon was alive the Northern Lords would have done that - passing over a true-born male son in favour of a bastard.

In the books there is Robb's will which, although currently missing, legitimises Jon and names him heir to Winterfell in order to remove Sansa Lannister rom the succession in the event of Robb's death. That's never been included in the show.

AryaUnderfoot · 02/09/2017 10:02

Correction - the Northern Lords would not have done that.

Trills · 02/09/2017 14:22

I don't care about Rickon.

He's hardly a character. I've been given no reason to care about him.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 03/09/2017 10:47

Robb's will only legitimises Jon because he thought Bran and Rickon were dead, though. Surely if one of them is proved to be alive they would still come higher up in the line of succession? I can't see the Northern Lords going for a legitimised bastard over a trueborn Stark.

bluegrape · 03/09/2017 10:49

I agree - now Bran is back and Jon is friendly with Dany, Tyrion etc the Northern Lords might not be so happy.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 03/09/2017 10:51

Maybe Rickon goes feral. Maybe Davos is simply unable to get him and Shaggydog off Skagos because they've turned cannibal and refuse to go. Can't really force a direwolf to get into a boat!

Trills · 03/09/2017 11:09

Robb's will only legitimises Jon because he thought Bran and Rickon were dead, though

Does the Will say
"Jon is legitimate"
or does it say
"Jon is legitimate and comes after other trueborn male Starks"
or
"Jon is legitimate and comes after all other trueborn Starks"?

And does anyone care anyway? Are we back to "thrones belong to those who can take them and hold them"?

AryaUnderfoot · 03/09/2017 11:40

The whole discussion about Robb's will came about because the question was raised as to whether Rickon dying in the show means that he is gong to die in the books. The original argument was over whether the fate of show direwolves foreshadows the death of its owner. I would argue that it doesn't.

The point I was trying (and obviously failed) to make was that D&D had to kill off Rickon in order for Jon to be declared KiTN in the show. Rickon was never a main book character, so his fate in the books may be entirely unrelated to his show fate (as has been the case with so many characters this season and last).

Anyway, it seems pretty clear by now that D&D have certain 'plot points' that they need to fulfil such as Jon as KiTN, Wall falling, a dragon being turned against Dany, Golden Company fighting against Daenerys and Littlefinger's downfall at the hands of Sansa. What they are unable to do is write a coherent and logical story around those plots.

AryaUnderfoot · 03/09/2017 11:58

In answer to the question though, Robb's will (ASoS, Catelyn V) states that, until Robb's wife produces an heir, Jon is legitimate and the heir to Winterfell and the title of King in the North. There is absolutely no mention of any other Starks, as Robb has assumed them all dead apart from Sansa.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 03/09/2017 12:13

Does the will disinherit Sansa, then? Interesting! I know it doesn't mention other Starks, I was wondering how such a document would be taken by the North if faced by Jon+will on one hand or live Bran/Rickon (or Sansa/Arya) on the other. I kind of think either Rickon remains firmly in Skagos and is definitely not coming back; or he dies; or he and Davos don't reappear for a really long time and are missing presumed dead when Jon is crowned KitN.

AryaUnderfoot · 03/09/2017 12:19

The will was written partly with the intention of disinheriting Sansa (or, more importantly, Tyrion). Catelyn advises against it as it makes no mention of the other Starks (and notes other issues as well) but Robb ignores her.

The will, as far as I remember, was last seen with Maege Mormont who is trying to locate Howland Reed (I think).

I could see Rickon returning to Winterfell eventually as a 'wild child' with Sansa as some sort of guardian. It would certainly free her from the obligation of having to marry another idiot not of her choosing.

JPTB · 03/09/2017 14:38

The Jon/Dany/Hound contingent are far too honourable to let the Wight kill Cersei, more's the pity. Could have made out it was an accident, chains broke. Who knew!

I want Sansa and Cersei gone.