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Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 7 discussion thread *SPOILERS*

595 replies

OlennasWimple · 27/08/2017 12:04

CAUTION - HERE BE DRAGONS (PROBABLY) AND SPOILERS!

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 7 "THE DRAGON AND THE WOLF"

Come and discuss the very last episode in the penultimate series, airing August 27th at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6.

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones.

OP posts:
coriliavijvaad · 29/08/2017 18:47

Sorry not rtft but wandering in to say:

Given that Eddard Stark was told by his sister that "Jon Snow" is in fact wossname Targarayen, how come he spent so much time tracking down Robert Barratheon's bastards? Surely he would know that JS would have a better claim to the throne than any of them?

Someone should probably mention to Euron Greyjoy that whilst the dead can't swim they can apparently dive and walk across the bottoms of deep water without any trouble, also have a dragon who can fly, can happily walk on frozen seas and can presumably sail a boat if needed. I do not think that the Iron Islands are safe.

I am dissatisfied with Littlefinger's summary execution. He didn't get a proper chance to defend himself for one thing. Neither was he pronounced guilty and sentenced to death by Sansa. Arya just slashed his throat with no due process. They should have at least considered the possibility of allowing him to take the black even if they rejected the idea (obviously the lack of wall is going to be a problem for that option now but they weren't to know that.) The difference between a lawful judicial execution and the cold blooded murder of prisoners is that the former has a trial, a verdict and a sentence. Littlefinger's death did not have these.

Mustang27 · 29/08/2017 19:05

You may be the only person disappointed by the injustice of LF death coriliavijvaad

KentMum2008 · 29/08/2017 19:11

DH and I started watching again from season 1 today! Knowing all the things I do now, it's brilliant watching certain scenes of the show.

The way everyone is so dismissive of the WW threat (grumpkins and snarks Grin). Also the scene where Jon is saying goodbye to Bran and Cat is foul to him, saying 'I want you to leave' through gritted teeth. Seeing Neds face as she sends him off, it's a look of pure pain at her hatred of him. Whether Sean Bean knew the truth (didn't he almost let slip once?) or whether he was instructed to just have a pained expression I can't tell. But also the scene where Jon and Ned part ways on the Kings Road, and Ned says the next time he sees Jon he'll tell him all about his mother. I actually cried at that part.

It would also explain Neds utter disgust when Robert B voices his opinions on the Targaryens, how he won't stop until every last one is dead and talks about what an utter shit Rhaegar was. Now we know that isn't true, Neds reaction makes much more sense, and is utterly perfect.

I ❤️ Sean Bean, can you tell??

KentMum2008 · 29/08/2017 19:14

I wonder why Ned just couldn't tell Cat about Jon? It would have made all their lives easier. Admittedly he probably wouldn't have taken the black and the whole story wouldn't have worked, but I hated watching her hate him.

They could have kept it between the 2 of them, she would have been happy raising their nephew surely, knowing his mother had died and content to keep the secret knowing that not only would Jons life be in danger, but also Neds if it emerged he'd been keeping him safe from Robert.

CeeBeeBee · 29/08/2017 19:15

LF did protest and deny the charges though. Anyway, he got what was long overdue.

CeeBeeBee · 29/08/2017 19:20

I think Ned keeping his promise to Lyanna to protect Jon/Aegon by not telling Cat was the right decision. If Cat knew, Robert may have been suspicious to why she didn't resent Ned's bastard. She is also close to Littlefinger and trusts him, so there may have been a danger of LF knowing the secret about "Ned's bastard".

AryaUnderfoot · 29/08/2017 19:40

I am going to get destroyed for saying this, but....

Ned was not the sharpest knife in the block. He was great at keeping his promises and being honourable but it was often at the expense of his family. Examples:

  • Not telling Cat about Jon. It would have destroyed the 'hidden prince' story but wasn't really excusable. Cat's attitude towards Jon would have been very different.

_ Not believing Arya when she told him about he conversation he overheard between Varys and Illyrio abouut how 'if one hand can die so can another'

  • Not breaking the betrothal between Joffrey and Sansa when Rboert told him 'there's something wrong with that boy'.
  • Allowing Sansa to be dragged in front of the King and Queen and being forced to be a witness in the fight between her sister and the primce that he had betrothed her to. She played the amnesia card (what normal 11 year-old wouldn't have in her position) and her wolf died and the relationship between Arya and Sansa was destroyed (what was left of it). Sod the Baratheon's and their idiocy - he could have handled it better - he was the adult.
CeeBeeBee · 29/08/2017 19:45

Perhaps he felt he owed Robert for keeping Lyanna and Rhaegar a secret.

AryaUnderfoot · 29/08/2017 19:45

mangomay have you read the books? The show toned down Cat's reaction to Jon from the books.

In the book, when Jon is leaving Bran's room she turns to him and says 'it should have been you'. I think that's why she's the most hated POV character in the series.

Original poster
OlennasWimple · 29/08/2017 19:47

Perhaps if Ned and Cat had been married for longer and knew each other better, he could have considered telling her about Jon. But they got married, conceived Robb very very soon after, and a couple of weeks later Ned went off to fight. He got back to find that Robb had been born and with Jon in tow. Ned and Cat didn't even know each other well before the wedding (she was supposed to marry his elder brother), so they were practically strangers at that point.

And I guess once you have started with a big lie, it becomes easier to stick with it

OP posts:
Trills · 29/08/2017 19:49

Tracking down Robert's bastards wasn't because they might have a claim to the throne.

It was to back up the theory that Cersei's children were not his.

They don't have statistics or genetics in Westeros it seems but the chances are that he's not going to produce three blonde children with his wife and 20 black-haired children with other women of all hair colours.

AryaUnderfoot · 29/08/2017 19:50

Olenna you are, of course, right. Also, Cat would have been seriously pissed at Robert if she'd found out that Rhaegar didn't abduct and rape Lyanna. It meant that Brandon and Rickard (and tens of thousands of others) died for nothing.

Original poster
OlennasWimple · 29/08/2017 19:51

Ned and Jaime are, I think, similar in intelligence. They aren't exactly stupid, but they have a particular type of intelligence that has lots of blind spots.

Ned makes the mistake of thinking that everyone will behave as honourably as him / the Starks / the North would expect. IIRC, book Jaime is dyslexic, so misses out on the sort of formal education that would have been normal for a high born boy so doesn't know "stuff".

OP posts:
Trills · 29/08/2017 19:57

I had forgotten that.

I bet that rankled Cersei - she was born first, she was better at book-learning, but still Jaime was the heir and she was not.

WinterIsComingKnitFaster · 29/08/2017 19:57

They've already brought in the PWWP - Melisandre did a big thing about "maybe it's a princess" which Dany was totally up for.

KentMum2008 · 29/08/2017 19:58

Part of me thinks it's a red herring though. Although it's been mentioned, there's never been any real detail in any of the episodes that I can remember.

KentMum2008 · 29/08/2017 19:59

PWWP that is ⬆️

AryaUnderfoot · 29/08/2017 20:01

Prince what was promised Grin

Stannis would have a field day with that one!

MehMehAndMeh · 29/08/2017 20:08

I think Ned was entirely correct to keep Jons identity to himself.
Cat resented Jon as soon as Ned turned up with him. If he had told her she would have ranted that he put their children in danger.
She was protective of her own children and a threat like a Targaryen in their midst after what they had done to Neds father and brother.

I think it's possible her treatment of him would have been even worse and her gums would have flapped if not to her close friend Littlefinger then to her sister.
I think she had little love for Robert anyway, she'd have had even less if she knew the truth and would have probably ranted treasonable words about him and Ned would have been in an even more precarious position.

From the first time they are introduced, whilst Ned tells his friend the truth there is still a wariness of him. His temper is unpredictable and this would something Robert would regret later, but would order exectutions for.

No way in hell would that have stayed secret for long.

TizzyDongue · 29/08/2017 20:09

I may have missed this in the thread (I, like Ned, am not the sharpest tool in the box but as anyone mentioned The Hound saying to his brother about 'you know who is coming for you' (or whatever the words were). What did he mean by that? Do you know? Should I recall something!!!

I need a diagram to help me figure all this stuff out.

AryaUnderfoot · 29/08/2017 20:11

Tizzy he was talking about himself. Rvenege against his brother has always driven the Hound.

MehMehAndMeh · 29/08/2017 20:23

*after what they had done to Neds father and brother would have been too much.

UrsulaPandress · 29/08/2017 20:27

Teleporting?

RonBurgundyspanpipe · 29/08/2017 20:28

I bet Ned breathed a sigh of relief when Jons hair came in black.

ABCFamily · 29/08/2017 20:34

and talks about what an utter shit Rhaegar was

I mean, the guy annulled his marriage to Elia when she suffered from secondary infertility, presumably making his existing children with her illegitimate (or at least devoid of any claim to the throne). Oh, and he let a civil war start rather than be open about said annulment and his subsequent consensual marriage to Lyanna.

Rhaegar was pretty dickish, to be fair.